Dueling editors :-). I used to use "that" for everything, and lately I've gone the other extreme and eliminate it everywhere. It has been a long time since I've had a grammar class, to be honest I don't really know when to keep/get rid of it, I just go by gut feeling. Kind of like prepositions at the end of sentences, as you might have noticed from my comments to your recent story...

Anyway, I'm going to use it here, thanks for the suggestion, and all the other comments too!

>I have to politely disagree with the user's comment saying to add a "that". You can delete/omit most instances of 'that' and I think that applies here too.

Hope you don't mind me butting in here too much, and I really don't want to derail the thread over a fairly minor point, but still...as that user, I still want to quibble with this. :P

Especially since I usually agree 100%, and I tend to suggest a lot of "that cuts" myself. I do think this one is needed to make a grammatical sentence, though. "He told him if" doesn't really parse IMO, at least not in the narration rather than very informal dialogue.

Hi,

Many thanks for taking the time to read the draft, your feedback is great! I should have said at the start that it is a stand-alone story. I only started writing fiction a few months ago and I'm working my way up, not ready yet to take on a long project. Maybe someday. Want to get short stories down first (like I'll ever really get it down). Thanks especially for the point about the last exchange between Erkin and Aynur, another reader pointed that out too. It totally makes sense. I'll have to give it some thought.

I remember that news story, I think it was Syria. Good reference!

Yes I will definitely do that at some point today!

I posted a second draft if you'd be willing to take another look:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestructiveReaders/comments/x3rd63/1808\_checkpoint\_version\_2/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3

Hi!



Overall, this was great. I really enjoyed it. Below is some thoughts on certain lines and dialogue etc. Before that though you wanted to now about characters primarily. It's a bit hard due to the nature of this sub since generally people will post small excerpts and first chapters etc so it's hard to get an overall feel. 



My initial thoughts are that Erkin is a fairly typical "be strong and don't show your emotions" guy but as always it's about how that's executed and I think "Checkpoint" does a solid job of the fundamentals. It doesn't lay it on too thick, it has a layer of irony in it, in that we see what his partner doesn't and we know what he's hiding/what he's really feeling. I like the idea that this is an older character who's seen a few things but is also a bit out of his element in the modern world. I want to see more of that kind of thing! I remember reading a longform article once about the civil war in Syria and the journalist saw a scene where posts of the dictat

Glad you found some of my critique useful. I would enjoy reading an updated version of the story.

Many thanks! You are too kind (but don't stop--I'll take all the compliments I can get!). Your feedback about giving Aynur more depth is especially good, I hadn't thought of that but I'm definitely going to work her into the story more, maybe a flashback toward the beginning as you suggested. Or maybe a moment of Erkin thinking about her in bed at home, unable to take care of herself. I should have noted at the beginning that this is a stand-alone story, but I agree there's still more that can be done to make Aynur more meaningful.

Trust me, evoking emotion is not easy for me. In fact, it is thanks to r/DestructiveReaders that I'm able to do it at all, I consistently get feedback that my characters are superficial. I usually go for the "hammer to the head" approach, but this forum has helped me to at least see it's something I need to work on.

Your language suggestions are also great, I'm going to use all of them. I've been writing action stories, so I've gotten into the habit of lot

I posted a second draft if you'd be willing to take a look:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestructiveReaders/comments/x3rd63/1808\_checkpoint\_version\_2/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3

**OPENING COMMENTS:**  
I thought this was very well-written. It grabbed my attention from the beginning and never let up—your talent is obvious.  I’ll try to mention a few points where I think things could be smoothed or polished a little, but really there isn’t much to nitpick here. I think with a bit more editing and revision, this story will be ready to submit for publication. Or is this merely the start of a longer work? Either way, I think you are well on your way to having something special here.

**PLOT:**  
Erkin, an elderly man living in a Middle-Eastern country in the near future, has to pick up medicine for his wife, Aynur, who suffers from dementia. The errand is complicated by the cruel guards who man the checkpoint he must pass through, guards who are violent and lack any pity. Erkin has decided to hide his wife’s pills on his person and lie to the guards, since when he was honest last time they confiscated the medication, leading to Aynur suffering an entire month of co

Yeah, I’ve been thinking about that since reading your comment. Maybe at least somehow indicating the kids are “the same” (ethnicity implied) as the guards, while Erkin “is not.” Anyway, I appreciate you pointing that out, it has definitely sparked some more thinking for me.

Btw, the desert that Erkin “might never return from” is a hint about where it takes place. There are a few Easter eggs. The LED signs are another (think about the color). And him not being able to get a passport.

> The drunken kids are based on real people too--the only reason the old man was being harassed (the only real reason) was ethnic discrimination. The kids were the right ethnicity, he was not.

Wow! That's really interesting. Including this would give the story a lot of power. Although I can see how it would be difficult if you don't want to reveal the place. I suppose you could mention ethnicities without saying precisely what they are? And maybe name drop something like "LED signs imported from the USA" or something to ground it in the real world? Just some ideas off the top of my head

Thanks! I appreciate the criticism, it is exactly what I need to be able to improve the story. Concerning your comments about the setting, you've pegged my biggest conundrum. The story is in fact based on an actual old man I saw being harassed at a checkpoint, something I saw a few years ago and have wondered about ever since. I guess this is my attempt to fill in the rest of the story. The place descriptions all refer to an actual place as I saw it. The problem is, it's a politically sensitive area, and I'm hesitant to be too specific about it because I'd like to be able to go back there some day. Maybe I'm being overly dramatic, but it makes me nervous. Sucks to live in a world where we have to worry about things like that. I guess it sucks a lot more for the people who live there--one of the reasons I can't forget about that old man. The drunken kids are based on real people too--the only reason the old man was being harassed (the only real reason) was ethnic discrimination. The kid

> Erkin hesitated at the edge of the empty square. 

I struggled with this description a lot at first. The whole first paragraph is full of such generalities that I couldn't picture it at all. In fact I thought this was going to be a fantasy novel based on the language. It was only when you filled in some more concrete details like that of a mosque that had acquired modern things like LED lights that I was able to visualise the scene. 

> Where Aynur first spoke to him, lifted him up and helped him home. Moonlight: she was well-named. 

Aynur is dropped in here very briefly but it confused me. Firstly, I'm assuming moonlight is the meaning of the name Aynur? That's not obvious and I only figured it out right at the end. Also, I would have liked to have known that she was his wife and also that they are both old. You get to it eventually, but it's a long time where the characters, the place and their relationships are not crystallising in my mind and I'm scratching for clues to give mys

Hi,

First in answer to your questions. It is a self-contained short story (whew! dodged that one). It is modeled after a specific incident I saw in a specific place, and the setting and details are pretty true to that place as I experienced it. So yes, in that sense it does happen in a specific place/country--but I'm also being intentionally vague about it, since it is a place with ongoing political sensitivity and I'd like to keep open the option of going back there again someday. There are lots of clues though, someone who wanted to dig into it could probably figure it out with minimal effort. I do want the story to function regardless of whether the reader figures out where the place is or not--it is ultimately supposed to be more about Erkin as an individual responding to his environment than about the environment itself.

Don't worry about being harsh--I appreciate your honest feedback, and I appreciate that your feedback came from taking the subject of the story seriously. That 

(Commenting because I exceeded the character limit)

\-I think I dug in to your piece a little more than I did others, mostly because I probably thought that other people needed more encouragement, and your writing seemed a little more like you had sort of a clue where you were going/what you are trying to do. I feel like I just went a little harder because I think the writing could use more improvement, and use less reliant on cliche. I think certain other people might not be going for as serious a tone or subject matter as you (many heavy themes are explored: terrorism, paranoia, medication, end-of-life, memory, mortality), and I think the writing can come off as torpid and pretentious unless you take care to stay away from cliches. I recognize the sort of writing you're doing, which is someone who is trying really hard to interpret some heavy topics, and is relying more on the weight and gravity of the subject matter to carry the story. However, as always there are other elements to

\- Hello, first off, I have a couple of questions. What country is Erkin in specifically? Does it matter? I felt that you did a good job of conveying the atmosphere, one with mosques, fear of terrorism, and frisking. But I was unsure if this was somewhere in the West or the East. If it was in the West, the frisking and fear of terrorism would make sense. If it is in the Middle East, I would be a little more confused why people are so suspicious of him, especially if he is an old man, and why they are telling him to shave his beard, etc. My second question is-is this meant to be a self-contained short story, or it is meant to be part of a larger work, or novel? If it is a short story, I think it works well. However, if it is part of a longer work, I would feel unmotivated to keep reading. It's not that I don't feel Erkin, I just don't really foresee anything exciting or interesting that could happen that would be unpredictable in the coming pages that would lead me to want to keep readi

Hi,

I'm not really sure how to categorize this story, I guess I would describe it as a character study on cruelty, compassion and courage. I'm trying to learn how to give my characters more psychological depth/interest. Any feedback would be much appreciated, thanks in advance for taking a look!

[https://docs.google.com/document/d/17nPrMWLsXq26u-9Il5l4pJC6sBPi1UtXS\_KcjOdHXeI/edit?usp=sharing](https://docs.google.com/document/d/17nPrMWLsXq26u-9Il5l4pJC6sBPi1UtXS_KcjOdHXeI/edit?usp=sharing)

Crits:

[https://www.reddit.com/r/DestructiveReaders/comments/w4tou5/2325\_celestial\_backpacking/?utm\_source=share&amp;utm\_medium=web2x&amp;context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestructiveReaders/comments/w4tou5/2325_celestial_backpacking/?utm_source=share&amp;utm_medium=web2x&amp;context=3)

[1589] "Checkpoint"