Source
r/berkeley•
ExcellentWeather

Be careful who you support: a lesson with r/Berkeley's bad-faith actors

Politics

I'm almost entirely sure that u/Responsible_Ebb6543 and u/EnvironmentalCup6776 are the same person. Each account has been one of, if not the, first to comment on each of the other's posts. And in each one they've made a top-level comment showing their full support while also defending the other in other comments. I admit that this does not 100% guarantee anything, but it is highly suspect. But there is more evidence. One account was made on the day another got into an argument and was immediately used to defend the other. Moreover, they have a similar vocabulary and similar ways of speaking, with both also repeatedly making a typo of putting a space before their comma.

Most of the time I wouldn't care to call attention to people having multiple accounts, but in this case I see a dangerous tendency: this person is actively harming this community through their manipulation. Their posts have gained a lot of traction in the last week or so, and I believe them to be filled with rhetoric largely used by those who aim to manipulate. Let me show you a collection of quotes:

Starting with u/Responsible_Ebb6543 , the elder of the two accounts. If you think I pull these out of context, you are free to look for yourselves:

  • Can you please explain what you mean by that jew? I'll wait

  • Lol it's cute you think you're special and the 1st one to mention this princess

  • It's not just rarely discussed , people who try to bring it up are shamed and belittled by people like Flux. We cant bring it up without being called a sexist. So we have had our backs turned on us by feminist and gender equality people. The reason the woman empowering one doesn't work is because gender equality people will listen and support those type of comments without any criticism. Have you ever heard a feminist call someone who wants to empower women sexist? No it's only when men bring it up they get called sexist. Flux literally proves what I say. (ExcellentWeather's own note: Flux is u/Flux64 -- a commenter who disagreed with Responsible_Ebb -- I would highly recommend reading through their comments if you do not see the problems with this sort of rhetoric)

  • My problem is when feminist can't have conversations about this without getting emotional & doing weird personal attacks.

  • Women perpetuate this in dating roles when they refuse to be with a man that is financially worse off then them,( especially true with college graduate woman.)

  • A lot of men here at Berkeley lack confidence which is honestly really sad to see. You're men & are at Berkeley, you have so much potential to succeed & get what you want in this world. Most of you are high value without even realizing it. Ik MOST gender equality people have turned their backs on us & ignored our specific problems (like the pressure we face to succeed), but you can overcome the pressure we face & make something of yourself. Be proud to be a man & embrace your masculinity if you want , there's nothing wrong with that.

  • Princess I don't care enough to make another account because I don't care what people on Reddit say about me like you do. (Nice projection). When you tell me that people disagree with me you act like it's a bad thing. I'm sorry your IQ 65 brain can't understand this. Whoever let you into this school should be fired ASAP ( u/ExcellentWeather's own note: the day of this argument is the same day that the second account, u/EnvironmentalCup6776 , was created. Its first action was to defend Responsible_Ebb in this thread)

Let it also be known that this user used the account u/EnvironmentalCup6776 to make highly manipulative comments. Now I can't say these are outright lies, but I do find them very convenient:

In the thread where the "male rights" comments I've quoted come from:

As a member of the non-binary community , I sympathize with the male plight

In a thread about people's park:

One time I was walking by on a date , and a syringe poked thru my shoe

Now look, I really don't mean to call out this person. I don't want anyone who reads this to go comment on their posts or to message them about this. At all. Do NOT harass them. That is not the point of my post. No, this is directed at you.

That misogynistic post got more than 200 upvotes in this subreddit. That's disgusting, and people here should know better. You need to think for yourselves and be careful who you listen to. I've tried stressing this point on this subreddit before, but there are people who will take even your slightest support and run with it.

The internet is a dangerous place and it's easy to find ourselves manipulated by people who otherwise would never command your respect. Do not allow the anonymity of Reddit to make you lose your civility. I know it's easy to be antagonistic when there are so few consequences, but you must find a way to be stronger than that.

This goes for the media you consume as well. This "PSA for UC Berkeley Men" post has me especially worried for you all. You have to find healthier outlooks on life, I beg of you. It truly breaks my heart to see people put so much trust in those who would bring you only anger and jealousy. I will not pretend to have any answers, since I think that everyone has to find their own outlook to live by, but I will tell you that those who seek to divide us never have answers. It is not healthy to find worth in your life by hating others and making them out to be beneath you.

Mods, remove this if you think it constitutes witch-hunting.

Edit: Correcting one of the u/EnvironmentalCup6776 links

Posted Sep 26, 2022, 8:31 AM UTC · edited

29598
Flux64eecs ‘24•

appreciate the feature lol

anyways, what you’re saying makes a lot of sense and props to you for doing the digging. i am definitely discouraged at the amount of upvotes that post has, unfortunately many people (read: men) at Berkeley can’t see thru this type of rhetoric.

107
StressedCalKidCS '24•

Maybe I'm wrong but:

Ignoring the few sexist remarks in that post, the main idea was to embrace masculinity and be more confident...Which I think we can all agree with.. hopefully? That's probably why it got so many upvotes.

16
Flux64eecs ‘24•

I think it was actually the low attention span of most people browsing Reddit. They see “men should be more confident,” read the first sentence, and upvote it because it’s generally agreeable. I did this, and then I read the rest of the post and removed my upvote.

47
Quazister•

flux 64

2
Flux64eecs ‘24•

quazister

6
mashtartz•

I mean equating confidence with masculinity in itself is kinda weird. You can subvert masculinity and still be confident.

Ignoring the few sexist remarks in that post

OP’s point is that we shouldn’t be.

17
No_Tank9025•

It’s something of a delicate matter, for a bearded person to step in, and take on masculine toxicity.

There is, on the one hand, a sense of duty, responsibility, and personal disgust with a motive to disavow…

But, on the other hand, watching masculine toxicity get taken down by the most affected victims of it is deeply satisfying.

2
Flux64eecs ‘24•

did an AI bot write this

2
No_Tank9025•

I assure you, I’m not a bot…

Show me some pictures where I gotta pick out which ones got a bicycle in ‘em….

(Prepares by cracking knuckles, and adjusting glasses…)

I got this.

3
SkyFaceSpace•

Trolls? On reddit? Impossible!

88
mashtartz•

Inconceivable!

8
ExcellentWeatherOP•

And while we're at it, can we stop with the people's park stuff? Or get a megathread as I asked before. That one today is the post that first made me realize something was fishy. The feeling of this subreddit has been well established, and there is little more that will come from conversing it more. I have made these points before. I mean enjoy a good bit of banter as much as the next guy, but this is an altogether more antagonistic branch of this subreddit than I have ever seen. And we can see all that I have warned about above: people dividing the issue into an "us vs them" and thereby creating more hatred than is necessary. It turns mere annoyance into something far, far stronger.

You can be frustrated with the protestor's actions, but don't allow that frustration to be turned into more. Again, people will take your smallest support and run with it.

As for me, I will support you if you just sit by and watch the university create more housing. But I will always fight against those who actively wish the protestors harm.

So mods, please just make a megathread and let those who wish to debate it do so there. As of now, there is little good to be done by having people get up in arms about a non-issue. (Why is it a non-issue? Because as many of you have astutely pointed out, the protestors are a vocal minority. It doesn't much matter whether you think the park should be developed - at this point it is clear that it will be)

67
dwg6m9•

dedicated People's park threads would be nice, feels like those threads are super common and the same things get said each time. People can still discuss

20
mattmurdocks•

"As a member of the non-binary community , I sympathize with the male plight" am i crazy or is this hilarious

50
sad4241•

I died reading that

4
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
attention_seeking_•

That’s the guy that made that incel-lite post? Well, fuck that dude.

41
Responsible_Ebb6543•

Can you please tell me what made it incel ? I'll defend what I say loser

-29
Reformed_Narcissist•

The fact that it was a “man’s empowerment” quote. Smacked of male supremacy, kinda like white supremacy.

The fact that it smacked of men’s rights which is one step above incel don. Whenever I felt like thinking of shit like that, it made me feel resentful and angry at women. I don’t want to feel like that.

I don’t appreciate your petty insult. But, it’s fine.

21
zhelai•

im glad i’m not the only one annoyed by these accounts. it’s culture war every day for that kind of person

24
TheOneAltAccount•

Lmao. I made a comment pointing out how stupid the MRA bullshit was and got like 50 downvoted

23
buckyspunisherCRS•

i mean it’s not surprising that a lot of people on this reddit skew towards the incel-ish demographic. also not surprising that both of those accounts are run by the same person. they’ve got nothing better to do than make multiple accounts for a college subreddit 😂

12
EdwardTimeHands•

Plot twist: both of those accounts is actually Ben Shapiro.

16
thebenshapirobot•

I saw that you mentioned Ben Shapiro. In case some of you don't know, Ben Shapiro is a grifter and a hack. If you find anything he's said compelling, you should keep in mind he also says things like this:

If you believe that the Jewish state has a right to exist, then you must allow Israel to transfer the Palestinians and the Israeli-Arabs from Judea, Samaria, Gaza and Israel proper. It’s an ugly solution, but it is the only solution... It’s time to stop being squeamish.

^(I'm a bot. My purpose is to counteract online radicalization. You can summon me by tagging thebenshapirobot. Options: climate, novel, sex, covid, etc.)

^Opt ^Out

17
faultymotor•

i was really worried when i saw the incel whistle post being upvoted, lol good to know that it was because of this

14
Deep-Room6932•

Nice job

13
carrymezaddy•

Yeah, I had bad vibes ab that post too. The fact they had to say “most gender equality ppl have turned their back on us.” Like no, we haven’t? LOL The truth of the matter is, women have been discriminated against for centuries — CENTURIES. Hell, even the church in the olden days gave men permission to beat their wives bc women aren’t allowed to be sexual or something (which is a practice that still goes on today — really goes to show how imbedded these ideals are in our society). Women were barred from having real jobs, moving up in the social and professional ladder, shunned if they even got divorced, and so on. Hell, even now women can’t get abortions bc some ppl think they can control our bodies. There are literal laws controlling what we can and cannot do with our bodies. So it makes sense why feminists would fight for what’s been wrong for centuries first then what has only been brought up in the past decade. Fact is, men have always had the leg up in society. And before anyone comes for me, I KNOW a lot men also face their own issues and how society also places a lot of pressures and expectations on y’all. Men have it bad too, but historically, not as bad as women. That is not that say we shouldn’t advocate for men’s “rights”. Like I said, men deserve a fair hearing in divorce/child custody trials. There should be baby changing stations in men’s bathrooms. There shouldn’t be a innate fear of men. Men shouldn’t need to feel like they must conform to society’s def of masculinity in order to feel/be attractive. Y’all deserve to live freely and comfortably too. But you have to ask why do these issues exist? Why and how did they start and why have they been continuing on to this day? The issues that men face were created by men and perpetuated by men and women (from internalized misogyny) from the past. (If you know your history, yes, most of these issues were created by men bc of what they thought was right — usually rooted in religion — and also women had little to not power so). That is what we call the patriarchy. So instead if men attacking feminists, who all actually do fight and advocate for gender equity/equality and freedom of expression, safety, and comfortable living FOR ALL, let’s fight the patriarchy together.

11
justagenericname1•

This is what a reasonable version of their post might've sounded like. Much in the same way white supremacy as a system ends up fucking over plenty of white people, patriarchy is often pretty shit for men too. But recognizing the root causes of an issue is the only way to reliably solve it.

11
[deleted]•

[deleted]

0
DedalvsEnglish/Linguistics '03•

These are coordinated disinformation efforts, and it’s no coincidence that they show up in stereotypically liberal spaces (like Berkeley). I’ve pointed this out before, and the reaction is usually really blasé—like the top comment on this thread at the moment. There should be safeguards against conservative troll brigades. If you do nothing, they eventually take over—and take a lot of bystanders along with them.

10
mashtartz•

Oh man don’t even look at r/sanfrancisco or r/bayarea, you’d think the whole area was a conservative mecca based on those two.

r/askSF is the only one worth following.

3
ExcellentWeatherOP•

This is on my mind as well, but I'm hesitant to really call it out. If I were wrong, I would lose a lot of credibility and so more of those bystanders would be corrupted.

I'm glad you brought it up, though. And even if it isn't a concerted effort from outside, I still want to stop this sort of idea from taking root in the first place

2†
Pack_Runner1•

Lmao this person just got outed

8
Deep-Room6932•

Future forensic scientist

I hope you play for the good guys

6
upperstephside•

You can tell by their writing in all posts they’re an actual loser that only feels empowerment by posting stuff online…it’s hard for him :(

4
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
theosmama2012•

It's good to know some of you are starting to see through all the clutter. Berkeley has more hidden social media warfare techniques up its sleeves than you can imagine. Just wait till they come after you in droves on comment threads. It's kind of fun sometimes. Mainly it's annoying. They love to gang up on normal people who just happen to say something that hits them to close to the balls.

1
MaybePrior•

Some of the things quoted here are troublesome. Some are genuine topics that deserve discussing. While women can generally be oppressed it can also be true that there are negative aspects to being a man. (Being expected to make more money than your partner, expectation to suppress emotion/mental health issues, etc…)

0
larisagnia•

This is how toxic this fucking environment is lol, people are actually downvoting this. Worlds gone to shit, ah well.

0