Honest/Constructive Castle/Warband Feedback

Feedback

I'm sure Blizzard doesn't actually care what players think here, but after playing through the Castle both solo and with a few warband members - here's my rundown as concisely and fairly as possible.

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  1. Castle is actually sort of fun as a solo experience - roaming dark halls, opening doors to find out what the next room has hidden, chests tucked into dark corners instead of sitting out in the open, random boss fights, etc. It's GOOD DIABLO CONTENT.
  2. Castle as a "group" activity doesn't feel exciting... there's no real guidance on what your group should do, enemies aren't challenging enough to make the group dynamic necessary (they didn't seem to scale any differently between my solo experience and with team), and none of the loot seems to actually matter because I get 'Ancestral Weapons' from open world kills...
    1. To add onto this chaos, collecting remnants feels like the goal - but once a teammate grabs the essence and goes to purify it, your run is over... even though you have 2 other sections to explore... what exactly are we doing in here if it's just another "rift" mode where we run straight to a boss and then leave? You don't even need to wait for your team to be ready to summon the "boss" they're not scaled for group play and effectively a non-threat.
  3. Remnant collection doesn't really feel rewarding because you need your warband leader to use them rather than having the ability to direct your contributions/loot to what you want. Losing player agency to a loot system sucks and this isn't fixing that issue.
  4. The Castle needs a blacksmith/armory - there's 90% trash drops and if you're grinding castle runs to get remnants/essence, you will fill up quickly.
  5. The Castle runs feel like something built to play as a "crawl" experience, pushing deeper as things get more challenging - a true roguelike adventure... but no - you finish a wing, get essence, purify, leave... you can explore the other wings for more remnants and trash drops (seriously why so much gray/blue drops?), but there's no real purpose to all of that time investment. The "challenge rooms" that you light up after clearing it are neat but they don't serve any purpose because I can steamroll through everything without a sweat. If this was a roguelike type dungeon, I'd retreat to the "cleansed" rooms for safety to heal or recover before trying to push further... there's no further... Come on Blizzard - we were so close to greatness here.

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On Warbands:

I joined a new Warband with active players specifically to engage with the systems as Blizzard wants us to.

  1. There's no reason this should have been locked to the Warband system - it makes so much more sense as a Clan activity (especially since Adventurer clans have so little content already). Having multiple raid groups running through here to contribute to the Clan's overall improvement would have set up a Clan progression system that would be a better "universal" system for each faction to engage with outside of the Cycle tedium. Warbands would still be able to engage with the system without needing to be the gatekeeping factor that restricts your list of potential "teammates"...
  2. While there were enough people online to run the Castle as a group of 4, we all could have independently cleared it solo because none of the fights are even remotely a threat... even the final boss was killed by 2 members while 2 were still exploring before we got the "closing" countdown... This isn't an engaging group activity, much less one you'd actually care about running with "close friends".
  3. Queueing into this feels unnecessarily tedious - we have to enter the castle and then go to the hallway to start, which then lets the raid lead invite people directly... which functions just like the raid tree in Sanctuary... but there's no real incentive to organize that group in this way - you could run it 5 times alone in the time it takes a raid group to form and run it 1-2 times for the same damn reward. While I want solo content - I don't see why we're being ^(strongly) encouraged to group up with a consistent "crew" like this is something that takes coordination anywhere near the level true mmo raids do... even the "raid bosses" in Sanctuary are powerful enough to require multiple players to defeat - even if that's all a number tuning mechanism - the Castle doesn't offer anything that actually makes it "group content".
    1. You cannot run this content solo if one of your warband members is also running it at the same time. You cannot. I don't know what absolute clown decided this should be a singular raid queue, but it forces you to run it with any other member that is also running it... had a warband member go afk waiting for someone else to come online, so I couldn't start the run until they timed out and I could kick them... This wouldn't really be a negative thing if the Castle was scaled for groups -or- running separate wings made sense, but the way purifying essence ends the run is counter to that concept.
  4. "Rooms" being player-specific is really fkn stupid. If you're a warband member, it would make far more sense to have the Castle "facilities" passively benefit the entire warband. Like putting resources into upgrading the Castle "armory" would grant access to the Armory in the Castle as well as a damage buff to warband members... or "Infirmary" would grant a bonus ressurection in the open world... simple benefits to the player experience that would be something to incentivize everyone to work together to level the rooms up...
  5. Still don't really know how your progression from this system will move with you if you need to leave your warband for any reason... either you lose too many players to inactivity or toxicity, or just simply because you want to play with a different group of friends - the warband funnel just isn't a positive way to handle this.

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On Loot:

  1. This feels more like running Temple of Namari 20 times to get your green drops, except Castle doesn't drop anything remotely worth the time invested. Remnants and Ancestrals aren't really giving anyone (in my group) any significant improvement to our experience - they feel like a band-aid to make yellow drops seem valuable, but in reality we're still being restricted just to whatever pushes the god-number higher. I'm not being given any control or agency in how this system will improve my power, because nothing it does supercedes the CR scaling lodestone around our necks.
  2. Again - warband leader being the sole controlling decision on remnant use takes away any excitement for individual players to engage with this system. We can't make our own decisions on how we apply the spoils of our invested time, we just feed them all into the warband leader's coffer to use as they wish. Likewise the Ancestral Weapons feel... pointless...? We need to do 1000 points of warband activity before a lot of the additional power is unlocked, but even if we do all of that, the effects are still so minor that we'd get more overall benefit grinding easy dungeons for incremental CR drops. The Castle just doesn't seem worth the time for individual players and the warband as a whole doesn't benefit equally from the room buffs or weapon advancements.
  3. Seriously why are all of the drops so heavily weighted into gray/blue? Even if I get a yellow ancestral drop, it's often lower CR than what was already slotted or it has a weak effect... what exactly is the point of just rehashing how we use yellow weapons from "scrap" to "maybe not scrap but most likely still scrap".

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TLDR

Castle is mildly fun as a solo experience, the dark halls and room exploration feels like the right experience in a Diablo game... but it's too short and barely challenging in that solo context. Tying it into warbands and group play doesn't really make sense (at least not right now), but the itemization/loot system is still dragging down any excitement about playing through this repeatedly - without some way to tangibly feel our progression there's no repetitive engagement to the activity... This feels, somehow, less exciting than seeing legendary armor drop... which is a shame, because the environment is exactly what I would want to see in a Diablo game.

Posted Sep 29, 2022, 5:37 PM UTC · edited

4528
jmdd21•

FYI - A blacksmith spawns after each mini boss (x3) and once after the final boss (x1).

14
SteelCodeOP•

I do know this.

2†
jmdd21•

Point number 4 states that a blacksmith is needed. I was just pointing out that you encounter up to 4 per run. No biggie. A dedicated one in the main hall would be nice to have as well. ( What I’d prefer is an Identifier! )

9
SteelCodeOP•

A full vendor set would be ideal, yes.

2
Mikaeru_Jin•

Remnants are dumb because not only is it tied to RNG but you can't even swap / mix & match between what you already have because it is stuck to a specific set / run. You have to do the castle purge raid over and over again until you are satisfied with your remnant set.  

It's just another stupid hamster wheel to artificially stretch the content of this update.

14
Nytemare_Lord•

Amen as a leader I accidentally deleted the set from our first run trying to figure out how to mix and match. We had a couple sets with just one item that had better benefits but we could not use it all.

As a crusader who uses blessing and the shield set shepherd's burden that gets 15% increase size and more health is great but I can't use it because it's one item considered a set over the rest.

So I agree we need to be able to take all of them and mix and match to make one set with the items we want active and then delete the ones we don't need like the low quality.

2
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
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1
Nytemare_Lord•

According to the explanation mark each set can hold 10 and it always keeps the highest rarities if by some chance you acquired more than 10 in a run. So now you have to continue to grind until you get lucky and you get a set of 10 of all the perfect bonuses to Min Max.

Because you can't mix sets around which is a problem.

3
[deleted]•

[deleted]

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[deleted]

2
Byrmaxson•

Hey man, so, as a not-Warband leader person, can you explain how the hell remnant sets work?

We go in Depths and come out with Remnants. Are the sets predetermined, are they formed from what each run of Depths gives (so each run is a set?) or does the leader get to assemble the sets and slot them in? From the outside as a guy in a Warband since the beginning it seems the only confusing aspect of the update, and a bit annoying too as I can't set my own remnants (I wanna be big!)

1
[deleted]•

[deleted]

2
Byrmaxson•

We have some massive sets as well, at least 7, I'll give it a look.

Man, but that makes it kinda dumb? It'll be extremely unlikely to ever get all the rare remnants, which are the most powerful. So what'll end up happening for most Warbands is that any sets containing Attacker remnants will get slotted in.

1
Minguseyes•

Each raid generates a set. Leader can choose a set but can’t swap remnants between sets.

1
Clintos_Freshmaker•

The biggest benefit of running it as a group is the amount of Warband Activity points everyone gets.

  • Run it solo and you get 5

  • Run it with two and each of you get 10

  • Run it with three and each of you get 15

  • Run it with eight and each of you get 40

9
OakFern•

Yep. Sort of killed my 'solo warband with my alt' plan because if you run everything solo you gain Warband Activity very slowly.

5
sentientmold•

I'm in too deep now but really the way to run alts is to use a separate account for each one. That way at least you could run emulator or spare device to party up.

Leveling alt character slots is convenient for switching quickly but very disadvantaged as you can't log into multiple characters on the same account.

2
OakFern•

That's actually how I did it: alt on a separate account on my phone, main account on my PC. Originally I made the alt after they reduced the dungeon requirement to 2p so that I could have my alt logged in on my phone and use them as a body to solo run dungeons when I can't find a party. Even with the 4p scaling it's actually not as bad to solo them as I thought, it's a bit slower but not by a huge amount. I just avoid a couple that would be horrendous to solo (looking at you, Pit!).

And then I usually speedrun 120 bp to get the platinum and funnel that to my main account as well.

I already had the alt account, so at that point I figured why not make a Warband with them too? I just wish it was easier to progress the warband solo. You really want 4+ warband members going to be able to progress your warband activity properly.

I just don't think I want to get into trying to manage that many alts at once. I could potentially get a third account going on my laptop, but any more than that I think would be getting really tedious.

1
Simple_Link_552•

Solo warband with 7 passive alt accounts is the solution (on PC).

-1
youngavlol•

Really? Does the 8th member double the points, because I had 7 in yesterday for 20 points, the same as 4 members

1
Basedstation•

Blizzard should bring back the Companion System like in D3. WB Raids, Raids and Dungeons would fill up way quicker if everybody is able to recruit an NPC or maybe even another Char of himself controlled like a NPC. Moreover we would be able to do Dungeons at Night where nobody is online.

5
Weetahgooven•

God I hope not. Having a companion makes games less fun imo. I have 20 years of scarring from the requirement of D2>A2 NM Merc. Jerome will always have a special place in my heart but I hate that they become such a necessary build mechanic. Why not just allow people to solo all content instead of adding in a companion just so you have "2" people.

1
Basedstation•

Even if Soloing is allowed I wanna still use my second Character on a Server as Companion Bro. Love the Design of Wizards but don't like to play as one.

2
repodude•

I liked the Castle to start with as it's a bit like a D&D version of the old Eagles Nest game, but, there are too few enemies and they are too easy to kill.

It should have been an endless dungeon with increasingly tougher enemies.

3
SteelCodeOP•

This for sure.

2
AaronScythe•

Depths -
What we expected:
Endless procedurally generated survival based dungeon collecting mats to upgrade stuff over time.
What we got:
Run to the chests and challenge rooms, get early commons, ignore and beeline for minibosses to end this crap run early.
Abysmally weak drops for scaled up mobs.

Defense-
What we expected:
Waves of scaling mobs to kill that'd naturally overwhelm us with strength eventually.
What we got:
Poison Fog.

2
SteelCodeOP•

Very fair summary - it’s definitely not as deep as I would have hoped but the environment and the style of just running through rooms to hunt down chests and bosses is what I’d expect from Diablo games…

Just a shame they can’t let go of the bad elements that take away from that experience.

1

Are you in an adventure clan?

1
SteelCodeOP•

Are you?

0

No. I thought it was weird you mentioned them.

I think horde mode is pretty fun… I managed to get it done with 6 people; 2 were offline. Didn’t want to kick them. 8 still isn’t enough of a pool to draw from, so I’m going to have to kick offline people still; replace with online clanmates. AND, I can’t help out another warband leader with their purges and hordes. It’s the same problem warbands had before the update. Stop giving me warband-work blizzard!

2
SteelCodeOP•

My point was entirely that there is no content for “adventurer” clans to engage with beyond the menial tasks like rifts and bounties, no “clan activity” like shadows have with the Cycle (I place Immortals alongside Shadows in this case since you realistically need to be a shadow first)…

If this was a Clan based activity, there’d be these Castle activities for all clans but would make Adventurer clans rewarding without the tedium and competition in the Shadow cycle.

1

There kinda is content for adventurers. It’s the story 🤷‍♂️ adventurer is just a euphemism for newb

0