re-reading the series. Anybody else find Bernard and Amara's relationship incredibly uncomfortable?
Posted Oct 21, 2022, 12:06 PM UTC
1229
Love Jim's worlds but Christ he can't write women characters.
I've just reread the first two books and plowing through the third. I'm around the same age as Bernard is in the first book and I find his relationship with Amara just uncomfortable.
The age gap is a bit noncey in my opinion and his initial attraction to her seemed to be when she was in a position of vulnerability. I don't really buy any reason why the two are together other than sex tbh.
Only thing I can think of is Jim makes it clear that Amara also wanted to get with Fidelias in the past, probably at a point where she was 16 and he was 30+ so apparently she has a thing for older men - but come on it feels forced and unnecessary.
8
I've always felt it was to remove any doubt from the reader's mind that Amara and Tavi might end up together. It took a few books for Tavi and Kitai to really be together, and removing Amara from the equation in a very obvious manner seemed like an easy solution to the issue.
23
You know I imagine this might well be why it was done which is also rather depressing isnt it. It would be nice for Tavi to have had a proper female friend that wasnt a love interest.
7
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1
I do respect how he wrote Isana and Amara. Isana in Princeps Fury even admits to the omniscient reader that she doesn't think she'll ever be friends with Amara, but she's happy that Amara makes Bernard happy. It's nice to not see the only two female human MCs forced to be "besties"
1
I feel he finally got it right with the Aeronaut's Windlass, the young women there are cool and not sexualized in a cringey way. One of them has a crush on a boy, but I don't think it is overdone.
14
Completely agree. That was the first Jim Butcher book I read and I must admit the first Dresden was quite jarring in comparison ahaha!
8
Such a shame that world didn't get continued on, it had so much potential
1
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1
I really do hope Butcher gets around to continuing The Cinder Spires, as I feel it has the potential to be his best series yet.
3
I start my re-reads on Cursor’s Fury for a reason.
2
I never really read into her wanting to *be* with Fidelias, as much as it was an incredible amount of respect and loyalty. Like with no parents, she substituted Fidelias and Sextus for dad/older brother figures.
My biggest problem is the age gap -- she's an adult sure, but it's kind icky that Bernard falls for a woman "just out of the academy" ya know?
I think it would have been much better if he'd aged Bernard and his previous family down. It really wouldn't have changed the story that dramatically if he'd married "a high school sweetheart" at 19 or 20 and they'd had twins and everyone was taken in the plague when he was 22. Then, it would be reasonable to assume he met Amara when he was 28 or so. Hell, you could even say that he looked older b/c of his beard or something.
Nothing about the characters would really change so it feels... suspicious that JB needed/envisioned they'd have such a large age gap? Why did we need that? Was that ever challenged by his editors?
1
Bernard's age is never specified beyond saying he has early grey hairs, though Isana is 37 and Tavi is 15 in the first book. It can be inferred that Amara was 19 or 20 because her Academy graduation exercise was the mission with Fidelias in the first chapter
1
It states in the second book that Isana is older than Bernard. So if she's 37, he's around 36 at the oldest. That lowers the age gap quite a bit.
1
I thought the age difference was close to 7 or 8 years. Like yeah Amara was around 19 or 20, but Bernard was around 30ish. The only real ages we get as numbers in the book are Isana and Tavi though. And a couple times where we're reminded how old Sextus is lol
1
The interesting thing I guess.. is that there are women in the world who like older men, men in positions of power, rich men. Then there are women who like younger men. There are women who like too young of men to be legal. Amara and Bernard getting together is a reflection of life . Does a college student girl make sense who randomly develops feelings for her teacher, or who pays for her good grade with sex lol.
-5
"Who pays for her good grade with sex lol" - I think you might be the target audience for this kind of crap.
4†
I think you have just never been to a college.
-5
I don't think their relationship aged very well. There were a few times I found myself asking about their age/life experience difference. And maybe a small creepy feeling about Amara maybe wanting a "daddy". Mostly I chalked it up too JB's inability to write female characters. Love his stuff, but the romance and relationship area is always the lead ballon.
8
I mean... You can say that Amara has a weird relationship with older men and with Fidelias and Gaius betraying her trust, Bernard serves as a reminder that some men are good dudes
1
I’m sort of on the fence, tbh. I tend to skip over the first book on rereads of the series, so without that reminder I sort of….forget that they aren’t the same age. They both act like 30 somethings, and it’s really only in the first few chapters of the first book there’s any implication she’s anything like tavis age rather than Isana’s.
I always assumed it was him quietly retconning her age and making her a more mature person, since to my recollection basically no one else ever comments on how young she is?
7
Just boring. She should let him go because she can't have children, but he has a broad chest, part of his furycrafting is literally making someone horny (which is totally creepy), and they have a lot of sex. Something that is brought up constantly, lest we forget it. Also, like imaginary Xander, Bernard is quite the machine.
Amara's relationship with Sextus is far more nuanced and interesting, especially when it went to hell in the south.
6
Nah, not at all.
5
Nope!
4
I did. I really felt like Bernard always had to come to Amara's rescue in the books, and that Amara being so infatuated with him goes to prove she wouldn't have been that great of a cursor.
3
I don’t really mind it and felt it improved as the series went along, but I can certainly see where you’re coming from.
3
It is a little bit odd. Between the age gap and the writing it certainly is not his best work. I just pass by it as I can knowing I have a relative with a 17 year gap admiring their 35th anniversary and I don't have any perspective to the female mind. Its awkward to me, yes. Is it relevant to me... barely? Idk if my view makes any sense, its 4 am where I am.
3
Nah, Amara is like 18 or 20 in the first book because her mission with Fidelias was supposedly for her Academy graduation exercise, and Bernard is 30ish. Isana is 37 in Furies of Calderon and she's Bernard's older sister, after all.
1
I mostly remember it being pretty one note, with the same beats repeating everytime they were together.
Yep, I usually just skip their stuff. It's the same corny thing we've seen over and over.
I think I wouldn't mind too much, if Isana wasn't there being awesome with agency, backstory, motivations...
I haven't read the books in years, but all I remember of Amara was her attraction to Bernard's broad chest, and her reminding the audience every chance she got that she can't have children.
Which I know it's incredibly reductive and I'm short-selling her, but these things kept being mentioned so often, sometimes out of the blue, they overwrote almost everything else.
Yeah it's really apparent some characters have so much more depth than others. One of the reasons I don't care about Amara anymore is because she went from super flyer/super spy to just Bernards girlfriend. And Bernard himself is so one dimensional and boring.
Even Tavi himself is super one dimensional. He at least does things in a smart and entertaining way. Gaius gets a lot less screen time and still has more depth and more interesting than Bernard and Amara.
I liked Bernard a lot in the first book, he seemed like he was going to be this cool retired veteran type figure who knows everyone, and has the best grasp of what's going on.
Instead he was turned into a dude with a stone dog and a big bow.
This is extremely true. Gaius and Lady Aquataine are probably the most interesting characters in the book from where I am up to on my re-read.
I think Bernard gets some extra depth as Amara slowly realizes over the books that he may be gentle with her but deep down, he's a killer and a natural hunter. He'd have been a great Cane, for sure! Amara herself has an interesting emotional journey that's very internalized, doesn't have many heroic scenes except for some pivotal moments like giving Gaius a pep talk and carrying the torch of fear during Second Calderon
No you have pretty much nailed Amara's character arc in the first two books at least. She has some cool fighting moments but these are dragged down by the underlying motivation being 'I want to be with Bernard'
Isana from memory gets better as the books move on. In book 1 her whole motivation is trying to protect Bernard or Tavi. I mean it is also her motivation in book 2 but she makes some interesting choices to reach this end goal.
In my opinion Isana doesn’t get better 😂