A question about trans people in Fantasy
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Posted Oct 30, 2022, 12:29 PM UTC · edited
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I’m going to stay away from whether it’s offensive, as I’m not trans myself. However, “changeling” already has connotations and definitions in real life myths and newer media interpretations of them. Slapping the title onto something entirely different, while possibly Othering trans persons, doesn’t seem great.
I would just refer to trans people as trans.
17
I get that. But it's less of a rename more of the word certain people in my world use for them. In place of Trans as to them that's just what it's called. I think I just have to be careful how I explain it. Thank you anyway!
Edit: been reading other comments, didn't quite get what you were saying. Now I do. Yeah, I think I'll leave that idea be, not the message I'm trying to send
1†
Yeah, I can't vote on it being offensive or not, but I personally wouldn't go there.
I agree with the other comment: there is already a meaning for the name. A changeling is a fairy that replaced a human baby that was stolen by the fairies. I don't like the idea of comparing them to trans people because changelings are something different from what they appear. They are fake. You think they are human but they are fairy. I don't like the idea of someone making that association to trans people.
I think it's okay to just call them trans, but it you really want to invent a different name, I'd go with someone that doesn't have meaning attached to it already.
13
Yeah I'll do that, been reading some other comments and they all agree. Didn't really think of the connotations behind it and that is not the message I want to send. Thank you
3
I don't think it's a good idea. If it's based off the idea that fay could "change gender to mess with humans at their own will," that would imply that trans people do the same... ? Trans people don't transition just for fun. Plus, as someone else said, changelings are already something else completely. If, for some reason, you don't want to use the word transgender, then I'd suggest just making up your own word. 🤷
10
It's not that I don't want to use the word Transgender. I was hoping to find something different because it's a fantasy world. But yeah, the connotations that come with Changeling in the other comments have made up my mind. I'm not going to use it. That is not the message I want to deliver.
2†
I have trans people in my fantasy book and I honestly don't even use a word for them in the text (it's super normalized in my universe and it's never shown to be much of a conversation). I just allude to it with context clues or the character speaking about their identities. I don't think there's anything wrong with using the word trans in a fantasy world though, if you want to be more explicit about it. It's just an English word, just like the words "man" and "woman" are English words. But in any case, thanks for listening to the comments and being willing to change the wording. :)
2
I appreciate that. And you're right, maybe I'm just being a bit extra with it. I'll probably just stick with trans, I think I'm trying to over complicate things.
2
At this point its echoing the other comments, but this time from a trans person: don't. As others have said the term has a lot of negative baggage, even if your world doesn't have the baggage ours does.
Also, tbh, the classy way to have a trans character is to not hit the audience in the face with a steel bat that says "this person is trans". Show don't tell. Showing a brief interaction between the character and someone who either hasn't seen them since before they came out or isn't accepting of their transition will make it plenty clear. Or an interaction with an official institution (fuck government paperwork).
Lastly, don't constantly bring it up unless the character being trans is a huge part of the story itself. This perhaps may be my issue with the idea of the "changeling" term, more than its connotation is the implication that needing a new term means that it'll be brought up even kinda frequently. Saying, "This is Eva, she's a trans woman" all the time is a honestly awful way to approach it. The only thing trans people want more than to be who they really are is to be treated as a normal person while being who they really are, and constantly reminding people they are trans isn't super conducive to that.
8
Okay. So when the character is introduced to the audience it's done through POV of a protagonist. The fact that he has already transitioned is mentioned and I try and keep it true to the character being defensive of his friend.
It's said quite bluntly because I have so many plots and subplots going on that keeping track of that and hinting at it is all the more work. And the character is happy with who he is, despite some things to do with old friends and family. He doesn't make a big deal of it, neither do the other characters.
I was just trying to find a word to fit the fantasy setting. I see now I really don't need to. Thank you. It helps to hear it for definite from someone who is apart of the community.
The idea behind the whole changeling thing was that this character was being turned into a Lycan. (To save his life because he was deathly sick from reading a cursed prophecy) a character realises he's trans and since he transitioned through magical rituals that he helped create for other trans people.
I was literally just thinking about using the word as someone who has under gone physical change.
Anyway, thank you. Have a great day!
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I'm a trans woman myself and while I wouldn't go so far as to say it's outright offensive, it does make me feel a little icky. If I read that in a book, I would probably immediately drop the book to check online if the author is trans or not. If I saw the author was cis, I'd suddenly be scrutinizing the narrative's handling of trans people much more closely to try to see what the author was trying to convey.
So, you could survive that design choice if you can make the narrative clearly treat trans people with dignity (even if the fantasy world doesn't) and also write trans characters who feel real rather than blank slates or just a cis character, effectively, with the trans label tacked on.
TLDR; I don't find this particularly offensive, but it will magnify and highlight any actual mistakes you do make in writing trans characters. Doesn't seem like it adds much to the narrative. I would scrap.
7
Okay, so I'm not trans. Dunno what cis means but I'm a straight male. So that's why I was asking. I didn't know connotations for Changelings and what it implies, I see now it was a mistake and will probably just refer to the character as Trans
1
Just a quick bit of terminology as a lesson that will be worthwhile if you're planning to write a trans character.
Trans: you know what this means, obviously. Short for transgender
Cis: Not trans. A person who identifies as the gender they were assigned at birth is cisgender, or cis for short.
Straight: Heterosexual. A person who is straight is attracted to people of a different gender than the one they identify with. A male to female transgender woman could also be considered straight if she is attracted to men.
Gay: Homosexual. A person who is gay is attracted to people who have a similar gender identity to them. A male to female tramsgender woman would be considered gay (or lesbian, interchangeably) if she is attracted to women.
These terms have some further nuance and edge cases that may be hard for you to intuit if you aren't familiar with gay and/or transgender communities. If you do plan on exploring the specifics of sexuality or gender as they relate to a transgender character, don't be afraid to ask questions (politely). Most of us are more than happy to answer questions asked in good faith. I love seeing straight, cisgender writers attempt to write characters like me. I appreciate the effort to portray and relate to an experience that is not entirely like their own
3
Awesome thank you for the advice!
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I say this with all kindness and politeness intended, but, if you don't even know the most basic trans terminology, then you have a fair bit of researching to do. And please, please do that research. Because even though they sound like a side character, you can still royally mess up a lot in a matter of sentences. The same as you can for characters of any background.
I'm not saying you need to be a total expert or anything (no one would get anything written if that were the case) but it's one of those things where you can tell if someone hasn't done even a simple google search.
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Not to harp on the fact that 'changling' has a connotation in the Real World that isn't all that cool...but you're ALSO not using it very nicely yourself?
Let's pretend changling has no real world baggage. You're STILL using a nickname from your universe which means 'trickster ancient people stronger then humans used to f!ck with humans who couldn't trust them to be what they said'... for trans people? Even in your world, that's not 'just another word'. That's coming with all the implications of non-human, trickery, and fakeness. It is, I'm afraid to say, being used as a slur in YOUR context, never mind the real world!
Which, since this is fiction, is fine if you're making these people bigoted to someone who is trans and are demonstrating that bigotry. But claiming they use it as 'just another word' with THAT in-book history is... questionable and not realistic?
I mean, if you are happy with THAT, then you may as well stick with 'changling'. You're using it in exactly the same loaded manner it WAS used historically, albeit for a different circumstance ('tricking' people about gender vs 'tricking' people about who is their kid)
There's all sorts of neutral-to-nice names that could work in fantasy for trans people, and even have a cute backstory to explain it. But that in-story backstory isn't neutral, it is negatively loaded, and I'd say it is the problem- simply calling them the 'wallaballoos' and keeping that backstory is NOT going to create 'just a cool word for trans people' in your own setting.
Again, if it is intended to be prejudiced or derogatory in-book, that's a different matter and the back story would be 100% on point.
4
It's more of an in-book myth. I also had just came up with it. Like I've already said several times I have changed my mind and won't be using it. Also the myth thing was just something I came up with on the spot. It was more of an example, a bad one I can see but.
I get you feel strongly about this but I was just asking a question because I didn't know the connotations of Changeling.
Creating Mythos like that in-world would be hard to explain. So like I have already said, I'm changing it.
Thank you. Good day
1
Let the mages use the name but have other characters question it. As another reply said, calling trans people changelings won't sit right but I doubt it'd offend anybody if an out of touch mage used the word. Would also give a little world building.
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Yeah the idea was to have Older Magical races use it but the connotations in well known fantasy would give the wrong message. I don't want that to be the message I'm giving out. Thanks
1
Wait what? Like, why?
Well, at least you’re putting this in the correct category: Fantasy.
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The idea was the Magic folk have passed down a different name. It would just be something used as an alternative name. Just didn't think about the connotations behind Changeling. I'm going to leave it out because that is not the message I want to give across.
2
Do it. Call the trans “Changelings” and see what happens.
Edit: I honestly wouldn’t ask here, I’d ask in somewhere Ike r/trans or something. See what those folk have to say. Everyone here is obv too cautious, but you’re not exactly going to the source for guidance here.
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Yeah nah, been reading the other comments. Didn't realize it was such a bad idea because of the myths behind Changelings. I'm so glad I asked before making up my mind
2
Fair enough, it’s your story. I just would recommend going to a good source material for guidance on these issues, that’s all. It’s like asking about a character replacing the head gaskets in a story, so you come here to see how it’s done rather than ask a mechanic. But hey, doesn’t matter.
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You got a point, I'll make something up that doesn't have any connotations and then ask in a community like that. Thanks
1
Bro keep your politics out of fantasy. You can have trans characters as cool peculiar exotic people but having transgender magic people is kind of on topic in the political landscape. It’s best to not go there.
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Yes because god knows fantasy literature has NEVER been a vehicle for social commentary.
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Yeh but they usually don’t beat your head over it. Asoif is about war bad, Vietnam, but they make war being bad cool. I don’t have any other examples HAHA probably because fantasy don’t beat their reader over the head with political messages.
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"Beat over the head with political message" = "any politics you don't agree with" apparently. It's obvious you're just a transphobe who doesn't want them in "your'" fantasy.
Btw, here are some examples, since you seem to lack any level of media literacy,
The Hobbit is about how society treated war veterans following WWI
Tales of Earthsea has obvious commentary regarding race. Ursula K. Le Guin was open about how deliberate she was in making Earthsea majority POC and the white people the "savages".
The Fifth Season is all politics all the time and it's all the better for it. Ditto for The City We Become.
And lets not forget literally everything ever written by Terry Pratchett.
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-4
I would not use Changeling. It already has a historical meaning--it's the belief that a child was secretly swapped by a fairy or some other creature. It has fairly negative connotations, as there's a sense of wrongness about the child that some folklorists believe led to infanticide in the past. I would not want to connect a trans person to that feeling of "this is not my child, I must kill it."
While the above concern is not wrong, the term "changeling" had been used by so many modern works of fiction in a wide range of disconnected contexts that its historic meaning is completely diluted by now.
If you search online for "changeling", the vast majority of results comes up with the original meaning. The few examples I saw from various forms of media still have a negative connotation and seem to be inspired by the original folklore. Take changelings from Star Trek for example. They're a major villain in DS9 and replace people for nefarious reasons. I don't think the meaning of the word has changed very much at all...it still has a "they're not really like us" vibe that I personally wouldn't want to use for a trans character.
Oh wasn't aware of that. Okay yeah good point, thank you.