Footage of a Teamfight with Radiant Virtue for Practical Data. Information in the Comment Below.
v.redd.it/swb538klom0a1
v.redd.itPosted Nov 18, 2022, 4:30 AM UTC
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v.redd.itI feel like heart is better only for the fact that you can proc it every time you press e and stack health quick
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Heartsteel, at least when I tried it (admittedly not a great sample size), only seems to benefit Illaoi in the sense that it's extremely strong and therefore benefits her residually. Think of how everyone described Udyr as being broken during the Chemtank meta (I think during season 10 or early season 11. It was before I started playing); Udyr was only strong because Chemtank was busted. Similarly, Illaoi only benefits from using Hearsteel because it's strong.
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Iceborn is just so much better. You take reduced damage, as well as have a slow that mean pesky ranged / speedy champs have a much harder time dodging your e. I've seen more conq healing in iceborn games (upwards of 3k) than any other build I've done
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Did you mention how much this healed for on the clip?
This is a weird item with power in a lot of strange places. Giving 100 ability haste across your team is definitely worth gold, and 20 is a solid amount, but it's still going to be so random as to whether another rotation of a critical ability goes off
But a mythic with 40 AH is still interesting. I think you'd want other items that make you impossible to approach with perma E and W.
And yet I bet they don't stack... So you'll kind of have to read your team comp also. Idk I'll have to see more footage until I'm convinced.
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Yeah so the healing at the time was around 41, 82 at low health, per tick, so it probably wasn't worth much beyond surviving an ignite. I forgot about this so I'll keep it in mind for future footage, especially since it's getting a decent buff.
The problem with quantifying Virtue's healing is that, on Illaoi at least, you also have the buffed health, which will help the healing from tentacles (because it's based on missing health) and a buff to shielding from items like sterak's and stoneplate (all of which will help you last longer in a fight), and the ability haste, the effect of which will vary based on your items, will also help you gain access to the tentacle slams that will heal you. It gets even more complicated when you buff other champions that have healing abilities like sona, soraka, etc.
The odd power budget is why I'm providing some clips with data. It's an item that has seemingly unnoticeable effects, compared to Iceborn (a very obvious frostfield ever time).
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Yeah I really appreciate seeing tape alongside the usual speculative analysis around here.
We'll see how it looks after the buffs, but if you crunch the numbers on how tanky it actually makes you, I don't think you'll be blown away per se.
I did the math a couple years ago on the increased passive heals from warmogs, vs buying a no HP item, and the increase was pretty unimpressive. The ratio is just kinda bad
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Pretty short, segmented teamfight where I don't think I even notice much value from the item in terms of damage... and if it's reducing teammate cds then I cannot tell. Iceborn gives me 2 second q and ws anyways.
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Unfortunately I can't really choose my teamfights; I just take that samples I can get. More teamfights will come, but this is what I could grab for now :)
This data is also meant to be extrapolative (if that's a word lol). It's purely meant to provide data that you can take to other games and determine the items effect in said games.
And yeah, the ability to get similar cooldowns is why I think people with high cooldowns/ low AH would benefit more from the item. Illaoi can and often does build a lot of AH so the amount she would benefit from the item is likely less than others. It's not to say she doesn't get a lot of value, but it matters less when you go from 3 to 4 uses of an ability compared to going from 1 to 2 uses of an ability. I hope the takeaway from the data is that everyone around Illaoi in that clip benefitted more from the AH amp than Illaoi. Illaoi benefits more from the health buff.
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Edit: Apparently Virtue is getting buffed, so the healing and the Ability Haste should go up.
Some data on every champ affected by Radiant Virtue:
Radiant Virtue Uptime: 27:30-27:39
Illaoi Ability Haste => Ult Ability Haste: 68 => 83
- Q Cooldown: 3.57 => 3.28
- W Cooldown: 2.38 => 2.19
- E Cooldown: 7.14 => 6.56
Rammus Ability Haste: 20 => 35
-Q Cooldown: 5 => 4.44
-W Cooldown: 5 => 4.44
-E Cooldown: 10 => 8.89
* I may have mixed up some ability cooldowns here, specifically the W and E, but all the numbers did come from this moment in the game. I lacked the time and willingness to care enough about it to reopen the replay and check.
Malzahar Ability Haste: 10 => 25
- Q Cooldown: 5.45 => 4.8
- W Cooldown: 7.27 => 6.4
- E Cooldown: 6.36 => 5.6
Miss Fortune Ability Haste: 20 => 35
- Q Cooldown: 2.5 => 2.22
- W Cooldown: 10 => 8.89
- E Cooldown: 15 => 13.33
A few points I take away from this very simple (likely flawed) data:
1. Teammates with low Ability Haste and/or high cooldowns seem to benefit more from this item than those that have high Ability Haste and/or low cooldowns. Throughout the team fight, Malzahar, Rammus, and Miss Fortune all have abilities that, for their cooldowns at that point in the game, would allow them to send abilities 1-2 more times in the fight (at least 1 more time during Virtue’s actual uptime, one more after the fact if they were to get their abilities on cooldown before the end of Virtue’s buff). Illaoi’s Ability Haste change was equivalent to reaction time (around .2 seconds), and while this is nice and would still allow for potentially 1 extra ability thrown, I would still have 3-4 uses of any one ability during that time. I still had more than enough Ability Haste to make the buff unimportant for myself, but it still felt good. It felt like you were always throwing the the ability right off cooldown, as if you missed the cooldown before by a split second. Combat felt a bit crisper, even if the effect didn’t amount to much.
2. The healing isn’t great on its own, but this item shouldn’t be bought for its healing. This is likely obvious to many of you, but it needs to be said just in case :) Despite having a negligible effect on my cooldowns here, being able to spam a Q or W in your ult one more time will be better for your healing than the item passive, and by giving you more health it will also synergize with Sterak’s nicely to increase your effective health, likewise with Gargoyle Stoneplate. If you buy items that scale off health then you should benefit greatly. Another small note: this item will also cause Illaoi to have empowered healing because it will boost her missing health for a time.
3. Conqueror feels better than Grasp. I made a previous post with a video showing a fight where I had Conqueror stacked right when my ult when off, and when you can play around Conqueror like that it’s so much nicer than Grasp. Conqueror’s healing also feels great with this build, and while Grasp still feels great during lane phase compared to Conqueror I live for those long, drawn-out fights in the late game. Be sure to take Demolish, otherwise your missing out on some of the most satisfying Tower HP chunking you’ve ever seen lol.
I’ve been enjoying the item so far, and because it’s felt so good to me I haven’t tested the other items. I’ll do some similar testing with other items (like many of you are as well). The next item I want to try out is Iceborn Gauntlet.
This is some amazing in-depth analysis and I appreciate the effort that went into it. Seeing the numbers like this really puts the utility of the item into a more realistic perspective, where across your entire team's cooldowns, you end up shaving off multiple seconds in total.
This next bit may be hard to quantify, but in the event that you as Illaoi are able to survive long enough to get a good ult and draw the entire enemy team's attention, then that means that you can facilitate drawing out the fight and maximizing the potential utility of Radiant Virtue as your teammates use their abilities off-cooldown multiple times, saving a few fractions of a second each time. Maybe that'd be enough to push DPS over the edge in some cases.
Yeah, I can definitely see the case for Radiant Virtue now.
Yeah apparently it's getting buffed, so I can't wait to give it a shot when that goes through :)