How much “active mixing” is going on for the main / lead singer or other most important folks on stage?
Are you actively listening to their mix and tweaking, because you know what they like? Or do you wait explicitly for instructions or signals?
Does this change for backline or wash mixes?
Posted Dec 25, 2022, 4:49 AM UTC
During rehearsals? For the artists mix, the one whose name is on the billboard, every snapshot is programmed with level, pan, reverb sends, EQ on certain channels etc etc. More often than not this is done against the backdrop of the tracks coming from playback, which will typically be stems from the record version and therefore the thing your artist will be immediately familiar with/looking for in their mix.
Usually this is done without the artist present, with the session musicians playing with tracks and a guide vocal also taken from the record. Once you know what the artist is generally looking for, you can usually dial in a new song without any input from them.
Once I have a basic mix dialed for each session player I will typically wait for prompts before I make changes or write snapshots for them, but will usually listen in now and again.
During the actual show? I'm listening to the artists mix and riding the audience mics and turning the vocal verb off between songs. There might be a couple of cues, but mostly the snapshots take care of everything. It is not uncommon to get through an entire show without listening to a single other mix unless someone makes a request.
Disclaimer- not a pro and haven’t touched a console in nearly a decade.
Is your FX a pre feed from the FOH rack, or does monitor world have their own FX stack?
It’s all usually a waves sound grid server or in the board itself now with native plugins. Some tours to bring racks of gear still, nice preamps, compressors, etc but a lot is done digitally.
Very occasionally, for a specific effect in one song you might take a feed from FOH, but usually mons has it's own FX.
As always- it depends!
Some artists want highly detailed mixes with song specific reverb sounds, delay cues and other FX- others are after a much more static mix. In either case, I’m always chasing a better mix for everyone on stage (techs included), regularly checking in on all mixes.
As a monitor engineer, it’s up to you to work out what an artist likes, and attempt to deliver that with consistency, night after night.
Do you do anything differently if the lead singer pops one ear out during an audience-interactive session? Do you consider that a dig on your mix?
As a touring musician, don’t ever take that as a dig on your mix unless they say it is. Sometimes I get sweat in my ear. Sometimes I just wanna hear the crowd a little more. Sometimes I’m planning on saying something to another band member when I get near them. Too many variables for you to assume it’s your mix.
To me, it’s generally indicative of discomfort, whether that be physical or sonic discomfort, so I’ll try to open a dialogue with the artist to work out what they’re missing.
I worked for a band with a notorious lead metal singer. He had very demanding requirements for each song and needed a different mix so he could pitch his vocal high and low.
The first show I did for them was a warm up for a huge festival the next day and I was completely new to the band and their music. In the first two songs I quickly realised that I would need to pull certain instruments in and out his mix for each song as well as boost his wedge mix for certain sections. It became a juggling act but I knew the desk well enough (PM5D) to create a few scenes on the fly and flick back and forwards as I guessed what was coming next. At this point the rest of the band kind of got neglected until I had the lead singer happy.
After the show I got a set list and listened to all the songs noting the cues and where I needed to give the low end a boost.
The next day was festival day 70k fans on a stage 10x larger than the night before. I was fortunate to have the same desk and did all the cues that I thought I would need. Including another mix for where he would walk down the cat walk Infront on the stage. It was a brutal show, I couldn't see him for the most part as my desk was buried at the back of monitor world and i had to rely on the TV feed and a monitor to see if he was Infront of the stage wedges.
I had a few other engineers come and watch me as the lead singer had thrown a mic stand at the previous monitor guy and I suppose everyone thought it would happen again this year.
Fortunately It was a good show and I followed my pace notes to get the sound he needed. Got a compliment from the singer, didn't get twatted with a mic stand and did their next three tours. He was actually a awesome guy but had a stage persona that he maintained until we were back in on the bus.
If I didn't know how to program a PM5D on the fly and know by memory where all the sends and channels were I would of been up shit creek. In the end of the day the three main scenes did the following:
Boost stage wedges (low passed at 1k), kill the keyboards, guitars and backing track. Vocal reverb on.
Kill the stage wedges, boost the backing track, kill the reverbs. Give a boost to 2.5k in the ears.
Boost the guitar and keys. Vocal reverb and delay in on. Audience mics off.
In between that I had a general mix I could change on the go.
The rest of the band just had them selves, backing track and kick. Nothing changed during the set and I focused on the lead vocal only.
Please tell me it was Danzig. I saw him get so angry on stage that he launched the wedges off the front of the stage
It wasn't Danzig however your in the right ball park.
Now I’m intrigued! Ive worked with a few of the guys around that scene too. I’ve done my fair share of difficult metal singers as well but most of them as house or festival guy
Snapshots are your friend.
As already stated, I anticipate everything that my $ channel wants because I have been with her for 6 years.
I mix her IEM post off the DCA's and everyone else is pre.
The majority of the time she will just look over at me and I already know what she wants without her having to signal me.
So 90% of the time I'm actively mixing, 10% I'm doing nothing.
It’s been the better part of a decade since I’ve touched a console and I’ve never worked sound at a professional level.
Thus, I’m familiar with pre and post but curious if you could elaborate on how that works in practice as a monitor guy? As in, what is your post mix going to?
There is one main mix. That’s your ideal mix. Then there is a personal mix for each artist. If all the channels on the artists mix are set to post fader and their faders are left at default 0db then they will hear a mirror image of your main mix. Without the post fader feature you’d have to build a mix from the ground up for each artist instead of building it once on your main and just turning down the guitar in Samantha’s mix.
Is an artist hearing the main mix off the monitor console, or is that just a base point for the mix engineer and a way to control everything (that is on a post fade mix)?
If the FOH engineer is also doing mons then yea the main would be the FOH mix but if there is a monitor engineer then the main mix is just the baseline off which each individual mix is built.
The band I mix for is all on IEMS with no amps, wedges or sidefills ontstage except for a bass amp upstage center, a vintage Leslie, and a drum sub that sits on the drum riser to add some thump for the drummer's kick/toms and 808 drops.
I mix the Lead Singer's mix like a FOH style mix where I do guitar rides for solos, level changes if needed and the occasional signature delay or whatever is on the record type effect move. I also run two sets of stereo crowd mics and I ride those all the time through the show to create energy in the singers mix and to make the show sound like a stage in less like a studio setting. I have one pair in closer to the center of the stage and anther pair out wide. Riding these crowd mics for the artist is what I probably do the most during the actual show. My right hand stays on those 2 faders most of the show. I make changes to this mix freely if I feel like it's not vibing or I feel like it needs anything. Our singer is never at soundcheck so I just make it great and roll with it.
For the other guys in the band, I pop through their mixes to make sure they seem balanced and sound good to me. I keep my eyes on everyone and just try to be in the moment so if anyone looks at me I'll be able to communicate quickly and easily with whatever they need. If you are really paying attention no one should really have to flag you down. It's more of a little head nod or guitar player making eye contact and moving just guitar up or down a little bit. I'll make a change if I feel like any mix needs it based on the way things are feeling on stage and I will make EQ moves if something isn't sounding great to me.
Backline guys get general balanced mixes with whatever they are teching up a little so they can focus on it but still hear the full presentation of the show. I also send out a "what I think sounds amazing" mix for our LD to have to mix his show with. That way he can hear any talkback from the band and drummer and also the click track starting to know the songs are about to happen.
I haven’t done monitors on tours for over a decade, more in-house and festival gigs lately.
But on the rare touring gigs I did I didn’t use snapshots where the settings changed song to song like some do, but a static template where I just mute/unmute channels as they go, since the band changed setlist every night and sometimes even on the fly with songs they never played before.
I usually just used the same template as a starting point, and since it was all out own mixer, mics and in-ears, with house sidefills / floor monitors only working as backup.
During the sound check I ring the floor monitors, check that all used lines work, then especially during the first songs I check that nobody is behaving weirdly and/or signaling my way, which usually meant something was wrong.
So as a general rule I just stayed vigilant looking at the stage and listened to the main mix I made for myself. That way I can hear if something was muted, distorting, sounded like mic was off or whatever, while also digging the songs.
When I did monitors (I’m mainly FOH now) the bands I worked with didn’t want changes during the show. They want the security that came with knowing any changes and levels that were different were completely down to their performance. Only the lead instrument on a major artist (not a vocal band) wanted changes in click levels during the show, but that was clearly marked on the notes and we sorted what each level would be during soundcheck.
All the setting and eq and everything was done during soundcheck.
As a performer I’m the same. I want my monitor mix to never change during the show so I know what to expect. It’s rare that I’ll hit the monitor engineer up for changes.
I swear some of these guys are trying to make their job sound way more active than it actually is. To each their own, I know every artist is different but the 6 piece rock band I've toured with for 6 years generally doesn't like changes in the mix mid show. Get the mix right during soundcheck, then mainly cruise control for the set other than the odd feedback or guest sit in.
You do what the boss wants, before the boss figures out they want it. Whether that’s just the lead singer or the entire band differs according to the artist, and the show itself. I’ve personally found the more established an artist is, the better they can communicate their preferences in advance, so you can be dialed in with little changes for that first soundcheck.
At this point I’m certain that you need to have a very good grasp on human psychology in order to be a competent monitor engineer. You should be figuring out the preferences of each individual on stage, and anticipate their needs in case there are any potential issues, changes, or unexpected events during the course of a show.
As a few examples; I’ve worked with a band that did not want any adjustments to their mix after soundcheck, to the extent that they would prefer to take out their ears if a problem occurred mid show. I was eventually told it was because when they first started touring larger venues they had a show with an incompetent monitor guy that kept making the mixes worse and worse as the show went on, they were struggling through the show, and ended up putting on a bad performance due to it. The fear of that happening again made it impossible for them to trust any monitor engineer, so it was necessary to do exactly what they wanted, and only make changes to the mix when asked. Even though I felt like I didn’t do any real work during that tour, the band was extremely happy with that.
I worked for a different, less known, band that was comprised of egotistical and arrogant people. Every single member of that 7 piece band wanted a lot of changes to their mix, every single song. We’re talking fully restructuring each mix entirely, like the lead singer wanted just their vocals on top of the tracks in their left ear with heavy reverb, the keys and electric guitar in their right ear for the first song, then only wanted to hear their vocals and the click track stereo with no reverb and nothing else for the second song, then going into a full house mix for the third song, even though every single one of their songs sounded pretty much the same. All 7 of them asked for weird, but different things like this, and it was never consistent from show to show or even from soundcheck to show, they expected me to be able to read their minds. I really hope it was because they hated me and wanted to make my job more difficult and not because of some other underlying reason. And even though I obviously hated that stint I did with them, I still tried my best to anticipate exactly what they wanted in advance because that’s what I got paid to do, even though it was never right. It was cathartic to burn all my notes for that band when it was over.
While those are the extremes I’ve dealt with, it’s pretty standard to adjust the mix at the very least for the lead when they change the pace of the show. If you’re already making planned changes to a mix throughout a show and you’re noticing one of the band members body language changed, or the lead isn’t singing as powerfully as usual, or if the backing was late coming in, you should adjust their mix to compensate for whatever you think is causing it (after the mental troubleshooting). As a note, if a band member is having issues with their monitors, their backline tech will usually notice it before you do, unless they’re still green. The more well known band members I’ve worked with have their pool of dedicated backline techs that have been working with them for years so they already know the artist’s preferences, and how to communicate those preferences to the rest of the crew, which makes the likelihood of problems occurring during the show low. Just figure out how long they’ve been working with the artist first.
Basically, every band is different, and what they want to hear largely depends on their personality, psychology, preferences, and professionalism. And it’s a monitor engineer’s job to figure all of that out quickly and just make it happen.
Most recent gig I did was filling in with northlane - I was primarily systems tech for their playback rig but my secondary role was wireless system tech/IEM mixer.
Their mixes were baked in pre show - I mixed IEMs off an iPad connected to our DM48 mixrack. I say mixed loosely, my job was fixing the odd problem with panning and adjusting a few levels depending on the venue.
Listening in to each of their IEM mixes was pretty eye opening, each of them had quite simpler mixes than I anticipated. Marcus the lead singer essentially had just click, his vocals and a small amount of tracks in his ears. It surprised me a little, as I expected to be screwing around with their levels/panning/fx constantly, but they were all super professional and on top of their own shit, I would be adjusting levels maybe once or twice for Jon (guitar/synth) during each gig. I switched more IEM beltpacks that died from heat+sweat for Marcus than I did making adjustments to his mix. I never touched Josh's (guitar) or Nic's (drums) mix once.
I suppose it depends who you're working with. IEMs make life so much easier - everyone is so much less fussy with what they're hearing because they can actually hear it well. I went in anticipating the horror stories of geezers cracking the shits at their mons engineers for not being completely on the ball at all times - and was pleasantly surprised at how great everyone was to work with.
The first 5-10 minutes of soundcheck and showtime are pretty "active" and hands-on.
Good reaction skills are necessary, but Pros must always anticipate and lay down a "best guess".
The end game is automation. Bigger shows have the luxury of iteration and developing granular snapshots.
It depends in the band and individual band members. As you spend more time with them, you learn who is fine with a set it and forget it mix. Other people need active mixing. I’ll also just ask them if that’s what they want from me. Some will say “No, it’s too distracting.” Others will say “Yeah, go for it and I’ll tell you if it’s too much.”
As others have said, there’s the subtle art of just paying attention to the mix and the artist night after night, learning the songs, learning their body language, and figuring out what they need before they know it.
Hey! Country MON engineer here, generally once I get the bands’ mixes dialed in, it’s smooth sailing from there. I could probably walk away and they wouldn’t know.
However, I do actively mix the artist, swelling or pulling back sources when needed. I know what he wants and then I take it a step further to make it better than what he wants.
For backline and tech mixes, it’s all dialed in and no complaints from there. Just some adjustments depending on the venue.
I quite enjoyed talking shit on the mic into the musicians ears while the lead performer is talking to the crowd "hey everyone thumbs up if you are happy with the mix, anybody need anything?" then if they are all good, I just try and make them laugh, "hey Tony... Nice knees, Mike, you look like you need a shit, have any of you been watching the golf?" but usually it's all set in rehearsal, shouldn't need to adjust the mix during a song unless new instruments are plugged in, or a guest singer etc, otherwise we've locked it down in rehearsal, if it's a timecoded show the adjustments can be automated too, doing IEM mixes from front of house I switch my own IEM pack to each of the frequencies now and then to check what they are hearing
Like everything else in pro audio, it depends.
I've had artists that didn't want their feed touched after sound check.
I've had others with dozens of snapshots per song.
I even had one that wanted a live mix thru the night, and liked it when things were different. Said it inspired him differently.
This varies a great deal between artists and musicians. With my current artist, nobody in the band ever wants changes during the show unless they ask for them. Except we had a guest singer for this tour (also an established artist) who wanted me to actively mix his ears during the songs he was on stage for; he also wanted a much fuller mix than anyone else (the others’ mixes are extremely utilitarian).
So it just depends.
I actively mix my lead singers mix like I would a FOH mix. He’s never asked for any changes in the 4 years I’ve worked for him.
The rest of the band guys are pre fader, I pay attention to them every song and look for requests.
Also, snapshots are your friend. Don’t be surprised if you see a monitor engineer with more than 50 snapshots
Curious about the pre-fader / post fader thing. It’s been a decade or so since I’ve run a console and never as a pro. I asked in another comment but I’m curious how pre/post fade makes a difference in monitor world.
I mix my lead singer off of the master bus. And I mix with groups and DCA’s. I don’t want my fader changes on my “master” layer effecting the (usually set and forget) levels of my band guys contributions. So I put their auxes in “pre-fade”. So they still get all of my channel processing and inserts, but no changes from the fader level. It is “before the fader”.
Think of it exactly like mixing FOH and you had to fold back monitors. You don’t want your contributions to the main PA effecting the levels of the musicians on stage. So you put the musician aux’s on “pre fade”.
This makes sense.
I understand the pre/post thing - but didn’t know the lead usually gets the “main” bus mix on the monitor console. That makes sense, now.
A buddy of mine is often an A2 on tour. He’s also a guitar tech. So, between tuning guitars he’s actively making changes to ear mixes and guitar pedal setting that feed FOH. I don’t know why the band doesn’t do it themselves. 🤷🏻♂️ So, yes. Active changes. I don’t tour, so when I’m an a2 all my mixes are less active unless the band requests it.
As a performer with many different engineers every night, I prefer a static monitor mix set up during sound check, and nothing touched the rest of the night unless I ask for something to be changed.
On the big tours monitor guys are mostly recalling scenes for specific songs and waiting for their cues just like any member of the band. There isn't much EQ tweaking, that's usually worked out in the beginning of the tour, if it's not handled during production rehearsals. Withe macros available guitar solo boosts can be handled with the push of a button sometimes. With A well toured band with a pro engineer his job looks kind of boring. Waiting for songs to end pressing a scene change button waiting for song to end press the scene change button. At least with what I've seen as being a house guy for years national touring acts don't make monitor calls a lot during shows. They're not calling like me up me up during the middle of song not telling you to turn a snare down during the middle of a song. In my experience they wait till the end of the night and they talk to the engineers and they make the changes the next day during rehearsals or sound checks. No that's just my experience being A1 and A2 at venues and festivals on where I live.. now this is also assuming that the touring band is carrying their own monitor system cables microphones and everything. If a band has to use a rented monitor package there will be some monitor changes happening. But if you're using the same iems the same console the same microphones put in the same place every night with the same everything there's very little you got to do from day to day. If anyone thinks I'm wrong I'd like to hear about it cuz I always want to learn
if you are waiting for them to ask, chances are you're already too late.
interpreting what your bosses want before they know they want it is most of the mix. no different than it being the FOH mixers job to boost that guitar solo before the drunk dad comes up to say he can't hear it. at a certain point you get good enough at that dance that nobody realizes you're doing balance changes because they're just right.
really the one piece of the puzzle that does get chased around a bit with some performers and i'll still find them asking for before i notice it is their own vocal, up or down. there's some personal psychology in that one with some people that i don't think you can always predict by listening to their mix without actually being in their mind. you can keep a vocal on top of a band mix by the same exact amount, and one given night, they'll feel a little off and need some more confidence for a new song they don't know as well or something. past that though, i'm beating my vocalist to knowing they want more guitar for a given part, or need a ton more hat because the sense of rhythm everywhere else is purposefully gone and they need to come in on time.
Agreed. Once the foundation of the mixes are laid during soundcheck, mix the input faders to compensate for volume changes. Keyboardists may have patches all over the place, volume wise. Guitar pedals, same thing.
But typically it is vocals that need tweaking. Singer in falsetto lacks the power of diaphragm signing, so compensate. Metal singer growls loud with throat voice, so compensate.
Also, listen to how the singer is hitting the hard notes. Are they “gliding” into the pitch instead of nailing it? Are they hesitating with their full power as they sing the note? If so, give them a few more decibels of themselves in their mix. They may not realize that they can’t hear themselves enough to nail the hard notes without any “gliding” or hesitating.
Conversely, if the singer comes out and is singing without any real energy, give them a few decibels less of themselves in their mix. They may hear too much of themselves and not be projecting with energy. Dial back their vocals in their mix and watch the performance come alive. Your FOH mixer will thank you.
This is a great answer. Use your main mix layer as a “me” mix and mix the show. If a performer doesn’t want something moving put that channel into pre fader for them. For example, ride the lead guitar but put that lead guitar in pre fader for the guitarist. This way the rest of the performers hear the lead guitar mixed as it should be, lower in rhythm sections and boosted during solos etc, and the guitarist hears his signal at one level throughout. Some vocalists will want to hear their vocals pre fader and some post fader. Sometimes you might have one vocal fader for the band and another duplicate, with different settings, for the vocalist. My goal in the end of the day is to get my “me” mix sounding good enough to where I can mix the show without bouncing between the individual mixes more than I have to.
The problem with their vocal monitoring is subjectivity. Everything else in the monitormix sounds pretty much the same for the artist and the mixer (besides personal preference and small differences in hearing capabilities). When you listen to a mix with vocals, you can easily determine, wether they are too loud or in need of some boosting. But when singing, you yourself are producing sounds inside your body that interact with the perceived sound. Also the expected volume of your voice is higher, because you "feel" the sound that way. And lastly there's just a little psychology to it.
I figured out to sing along occasionally to try to hear what they hear a little better.