MindWalk

I have been in a few arguments with theists where they have claimed that God exists outside of time. This has occurred in debates where I point out that for God to know the future with 100% certainty the future must be predetermined and we must lack free will. The theist then responds that God doesn't predict things because he is outside of time and experiences all things that could possibly happen at the same time as they happen. This claim is also used to counter the argument that God does not lead to an infinite regress because he exists outside of time and so never had a starting point.

What is the best counterargument that you have used against such a claim?

I believe that most atheists who argue against religion have already lost before the discussion has even begun. Asking for scientific or physical evidence to support the existence of God is illogical given that most religions define God as transcendent. The God of the Abrahamic religions is described as existing outside of time and space and so, by definition, is beyond nature. Since science can only tell us about the state of affairs within the natural world, it stands to reason that scientific evidence of a being that exists outside the natural world is impossible to come by. We even lack the language and concepts to describe such a being since language too evolved to help us describe vari

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx7irFN2gdI

Since many threads seem to be descending into debates about free will anyway, I thought I'd make a thread that will allow us to "flush the pipes"-so to speak- and let many of us get this one out of our system.

First, do you believe that God's attribute of omniscience means that he can predict the future with 100% certainty? If not, then this debate might not even apply to you. Let me be clear, I am talking about an infallible God that can predict the future (foreknowledge is part of omniscience).

My argument:

(1)If God exists then he is omniscient.

(2)If God exists then he is infallible.

(3)The universe can be either wholly deterministic or not wholly deterministic.

**(4)

I sometimes hear Christians argue that God didn't create evil and that humanity creates evil by exercising their free will. This doesn't make sense to me because God is supposed to be omniscient and the creator of everything. To me, this seems the same as saying that a dice maker created a twenty sided die but did not create the potential outcomes of 18,19, and 20. Yes, we are the ones who roll a 20 or an 18, but we wouldn't be able to do so unless those were potential outcomes that the die maker put on the dice. Wouldn't all the potential actions that a human being can do be within the blueprints of creation that God himself designed? Do Christians believe that God only created material thi

I was reading THIS article and a few very interesting points were made.

1. "To exist is, in part, to take up space, to pass through time, and to have causal power, and this is to imply that everything that exists is part of the natural universe."

2. "The idea of god is of the source of everything natural, which means that god can’t be bound by space or time or have causal power; neither can god have a mind if a mind requires a brain, nor need god follow the laws of logic if logic too applies merely to everything that could exist, where anything we could know of as potentially existing must b