Source
r/DnD•
martext

Traps and CR

The DMG has a CR 4 spiked pit trap at 60 feet (6d6 fall damage) + 1d4 spikes at +10 melee for 1d4+5 damage each. On average rolls that's 18 fall damage + 14 spike damage = 32 damage. A level 4 rogue with above average con (14) has a MAX of 32 hp. So on an average roll, it knocks an exceptional rogue unconscious, and puts an average rogue (23 hp) 6 seconds from death. He fails his reflex save on an average roll and also gets hit by the spikes on an average roll. Is there something I'm missing here? Is every trap supposed to knock out or kill an average character on average rolls? That seems a little much for an equal-CR challenge.

Even if the character doesn't instantly die to the pit trap, now someone has to go retrieve him and make a bunch of climb checks to get down the 60 foot pit and risks falling himself and nearly dying. Then they have to stabilize the other character and then they BOTH have to risk doing it all over again to get out. Admittedly, someone carrying a rope makes this last part less risky, but not completely.

I'm not arguing against difficult traps, but should a trap that has the potential to kill a character outright really just be party-level CR?

Posted Oct 6, 2012, 7:40 PM UTC

49
Falcorsc2Fighter•

if your party isnt carrying a rope theres something seriously wrong. so really the only dangerous part is the initial fall. But to me that seems excessive, near isnt death for missing 1 trap.

3
DorkJedi•

My traps are deadly. Always. No one goes to build a tomb and says "Ok, how can we barely incapacitate an invader?"

Now, I do not use extraordinary measures to hide the traps. I assume the average trap is hidden, and the average trap finder should be able to recognize the danger of it.

My players are very wary of traps, and concoct elaborate schemes to bypass safely (Even when just leaping across the pit would be fine). We love them.

my favorite resource: Grimtooth's traps series from Flying Buffalo. Hilarious and unique options.

3
DerekCase•

I'd say so, they're really easy to find, so you have to make them worth finding.

2
martextOP•

at level 4 you've got a +11 search bonus with a rogue so, assuming you're searching every 5 feet in the dungeon, you still have a 40% chance of missing this trap. I really don't like save-or-die mechanics, especially at low level, and especially when you've got a 40% chance of missing the save.

0
DerekCase•

that's not bad, you have to fail a 2 in 5 chance twice and a rogue should be searching every 5 feet of a dungeon

0
ShivonQDM•

If you are really worried about someone dying, you are dm. Set a max damage you would feel comfortable dealing on a failure. Make it damn close to a death. Y'know to scare em.

2
iamtrulygodDM•

Dealing with a trap of CR 4 is an equivalent difficulty to fighting a CR 4 monster. Perhaps a better way to think of it is it should use up resources equivalent to fighting a CR 4 monster. And since the wizard isn't going to use any spells on it, or the rogue arrows, or the fighter potions, etc, the main resource drain is going to be on health (i.e. cure spells). Unfortunately, this means it can be lethal to squishy characters of that level, like rogues. This is why I tend to sprinkle several lower CR traps around rather my dungeons, rather that one high CR trap. (The CRs are mainly for calculating experience points). A couple of final addendum: you're assuming that 2 of the spikes will hit, while a CR 4 rogue typically has around AC 20ish. So average spike damage would be about half your quoted number, making it slightly less deadly, assuming they're not flatfooted by it (which they shouldn't be). Also, a competent rogue would also be able to tumble, reducing the fall damage to 5d6. Hope that helps!

1
martextOP•

It does, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something re: CR. If you treat it as for exp purposes only the whole system makes a lot more sense. They should have to expend resources, obviously, but paying for a funeral wasn't what I had in mind.

2
ZechnophobeDM•

Note that this is why feats like 'skill focus: spot' are sometimes incredibly worth while. You think of 11 as the max at level 4, but it could be higher.

That said, you should generally consider traps to be of different types. Yes, you could make a dungeon where any given 5 foot chunk has a trap in it, and this would cause your players to thoroughly examine everything. That makes some sense... but isn't particularly fun.

In such cases, a DM can make traps less lethal, or easier to spot, or at intervals where the players are more expecting them (doors, chests, etc). It's a bit meta-game, but can save the play experience.

1