If an employee needs to speak to HR or someone HR-adjacent about availability, scheduling, pay or other such issues, are these conversations required to be paid? Or are employers allowed to insist employees clock out because they are "not working"?
Is there a labor law code someone can point me to?
Location: NJ, USA
Posted May 3, 2023, 6:08 PM UTC
Ask them to put in writing that they expect you to clock out in order to speak to HR.
Lol. Not sure that's the shut down I'm looking for, but noted.
Contact your state labor office and ask. This is a ridiculous thing for them to require of you.
You are having a work related meeting, thus you are working. If I'm clocking out, I'm going home. If I'm "not working", I'm not speaking to HR either.
Is there a labor law code someone can point me to?
To the fact that when you require people to work, you have to pay them?
Yes what you say is my own feeling on the matter. But I would like to be able to point at something in black and white when employer is hostile about pay.
Making a wage claim? There is nothing to point at, being paid for your time isn't something you negotiate. That's your boss who would have to point you an exception that allows him not to pay you in some circumstances. Other than that, you have your contract that, I assume, specifies your hourly wage.
If you clock out, you go home. That's not negotiable. If your boss tells you that you have a mandatory meeting with HR, then get that in writing (either a text before or an email right after the meeting that you went to the meeting as requested and that it lasted from [starting time] to [ending time]).
Then you make a claim to HR for the overtime you did this month. If they don't pay you, you file a wage claim, no matter their excuses.
I don't really want to make a claim. Occasionally I need to discuss something voluntarily with HR. Every time I or someone else is on the clock while speaking or waiting to speak with them, they sharply admonish us and say we should not be punched in. I didn't want to argue the point unless I was in the right.
So what's the goal your going for here.
The law is clear. If it's related to your job, it's work. The only exception to this is if it's something that is tangential to work (aka the non mandatory bbq)
Any decent employer isn't going to ask you to clock out to ask about your schedule. You point them to a law when they get hostile.
They eventually are just going to find a way to fire you (later so it does not look like illegal retaliation).
Speaking with HR in scenario you mentioned is paid.
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I can't imagine that any company trying to do this actually treats their employees well in any other way. If you try to take a stand, you'll likely get fired. And it sounds like it wouldn't be hard to find another job with much more reasonable management. For instance, management who doesn't actively try to break the law.
I'd just put up with it for now, while looking for another job.
If it’s work related then they must pay you. My company hands us our time cards on Monday to check them over and pays us on Wednesday and I check both of them on the clock just in case there’s a problem and need to talk to someone.
How much time are you spending on this that it matters?
Very little, though it bothers me to be talked down to by employer when I and other employees ought to be paid, and we collectively are told we shouldn't be and have our time sheets adjusted. I only wanted to know who was in the right here, and be educated if I argued my point.
yeah if they adjust your time sheet for talking to HR, that's pretty straight-forwardly wage theft. As you've already learned, forcing the issue is likely to end with you fired, but you'll at least have the consolation of knowing your cause was righteous. (I am not poking fun, I have been fired for something very similar, and I would do it again.)
Thats illegal for them to modify your time sheet in this way. You dont even need to argue with them over it, just report it the right government agency and they will fine the shit out of them and force them to pay you.
Found the "we really need rockstar go-getters willing to go above and beyond their duty" middle manager.
Wage theft is the most common form of theft in the US. Employees deserve every last penny they work for. Letting employers skim a bit off the top is exactly how we got here.
Any work-related meeting or conversation is work. They cannot require you to clock out to talk to HR. When you clock out, you go home.
Is there somewhere that says "any work related meeting or conversation" is work? Specifically when it relates to the employee's needs (pay, scheduling)? I expect to get push back if I say this without documentation.
Are the ppl you're talking to being paid when you're talking to them? Admin duties are part of your job.
Yes, they are.
You got the answer right there
These are the basic standard definitions for time worked:
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/22-flsa-hours-worked
This section applies:
Would these HR meetings meet all 4 of those criteria? If not, then it is paid work time.
My guess is the meeting(s) are not outside normal hours and are job related, therefore must be paid.
Examples:
company picnic in the park that does not have mandatory attendance or job specific training.
And after work lecture series that is optional. Topics might include how to advance your career (not specific to the company), basketweaving, credit score improvement, or other general interest topics.
This is helpful, thank you. I would consider scheduling/pay job related, but is it? Technically not related to job responsibilities.
Is it a conversation you would have if you didn't work there?
No, it isn't, therefore it's job related.
It doesn't have to be directly related to your specific day-to-day responsibilities, just related to any aspect of your employment there.
If you are required to be there, you have to be paid.
If they have, like… an optional after hours seminar hosted by your HR department, they don’t have to pay you for voluntarily going to that.
Talking to HR about work-related things you need to do as part of your job (for example, working conditions or scheduling) should definitely be paid. There’s probably some line where, like, if you keep raising silly HR issues to get out of working, they can tell you to buzz off and go back to work. But a reasonable amount of ‘overhead’ from needing to discuss forward looking plans or professional development should be expected by the employer and covered as part of the job.
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