r/diablo4•
Gilthu

Ashava/difficulty doesn't need to change, the skill system does

Discussion

I beat Ashava, fought the beast multiple times, and learned a lot from the fight. The problem is that the entire time I spent tweaking loadouts and learning things I was wrestling with a terribly designed skill tree system.

First off the UI is horrible, unless they are adding a ton of skills between levels there is no reason for that much space between nodes. In addition you can’t even zoom out all the way to see the entire tree. The skill tree even has artwork on its border that you can’t see fully because you can’t zoom out.

Secondly the spending gold to respec and the way you have to either completely wipe out your skills or undo up to a point individually in order to make a change is just horrible. It supports getting stuck in a niche that works well for situation A and possibly brute forces situation B but always fails on situation C (Ashava). By the end of the playthrough I had a completely different build for regular fights and missions compared to Worldboss killing mode. And every time I had to swap between the two builds I had to go through memory and just respec from scratch and click everything in a specific order. It was a pain to even try to test something else out like swapping between different trees of a skill because you need to unlearn an entire tier before you remove a skill from the tier before.

I think people would have had a lot easier time in this beta if they felt like they had the ability to change things on the fly like in D3 rather than being set in a path that they had to build on. RIP to the necros that were trying to go skeleton build against Ashava, I fought Ashava on my necro with a spec that focused on blood spear overpower that actually did some really nice damage... because I brute forced my way through a horrible UI system.

I know Blizzard is an indie studio, but really they need to add a skill tree loadout system for quick saving your builds and then let you change things on the fly. A warning system that says "You are unable to finalize this build because you didn't put a skill point on tier #" is so much better than having to swap all the way down just to swap blood spear to a different ability.

TL:DR: D4 needs to remove the gold cost to respec, make the UI easier to navigate, make it possible to tweak things at any level, and give you skill loadouts so that you can swap between different playstyles depending upon the situation.

Posted May 16, 2023, 9:52 PM UTC

011
_Drumheller_•

Hard disagree on removing respec costs and adding skill loadouts.

Everyone would always change to the most optimal build available to them for the task they are planning to tackle next and therefore making all builds meaningless and each class a jack of all trades.

I can imagine skill loadouts without removing the respec costs tho. This would allow players who want to switch builds to do so more conveniently without taking away the biggest downside of it.

17
DjSpelk•

I disagree. With free respecs you actually shorten the game and remove a part of seasons. Part of the length is to create fully different builds so content isn't burned out before they have a chance to create more. Why create a different character when I've easily fully done everything it already has to offer.

Plus load outs and different builds will put a lot of players into a cookie cutter mode. Look up the best mob build, best boss build, best PvP build and just stick to them. Taking out a lot of experimentation of what works for them.

You didn't need a specific build for Ashava, it was intentionally difficult. Level 20's taking on a 25 boss. I did it anyway without creating a specific boss build.

Builds on the fly, PvP will put off a lot of the playerbase even more.

Free respec would also mean the 'content' creators will have tested and tried everything much quicker. Burning out any mystery even swifter than will happen currently.

UI changes I could agree with.

7
what-bull-shit•

Also, you aren't charged for the summative changes when you respec.

You are nickel-and-dimed as you go.

If you remove and readd the same skill 3 times, as many people do while tinkering, you get charged the cost for all 3x times.

Instead, it should keep a running total and charge you once when you close the screen.

This is a result of bad design, bad implementation, and a lack of time to review and improve before launch.

5
[deleted]•

A warning system that says "You are unable to finalize this build because you didn't put a skill point on tier #" is so much better than having to swap all the way down just to swap blood spear to a different ability.

100% agreed with this - the way it works now is one of the weakest parts of the game we've seen.

As for the rest, they clearly want us to be designing a build around being able to handle situations A,B, and C (or, at least, don't and deal with the consequences) and to not be respeccing per challenge, but it's hard to cover that much with only 20 levels available.

5
Bagdar13•

Disagree.

3
kestononline•

Don’t see what any of this has to do with Ashava. People low level and not used to mechanics struggle with world boss. Big surprise. Getting more familiar with it will solve itself in time.

1
Nagisan•

The best thing about D2 (and other ARPGs that don't make respeccing easy) is the need to create multiple characters of the same class so you can have different builds for different purposes.

If you can do anything on any character any time you want, D4 would have 5 playthroughs max. The way it is, you can have multiple playthroughs on the classes you like while getting to try different builds.

1
PhoenixLord55•

I agree with the zooming out on the skill tree that is a minor inconvenience they could easily fix. Gold cost is fine but what I do want is for the ability to change the abilities without having to restart the entire tree, especially if its closer to the first few nodes. Respecing cost can still stay the same.

1
Iron-M1A•

Make game easier? LOL K

1
_Valisk•

Respeccing in the beta didn't even cost that much. One of my friends did a full respec like, 8 times.

1
lastreadlastyear•

None of it matters. You were level 20 and it was 25 or whatever. Also you don’t even have all your skills.

0