Is the dream of a society fueled on merit dead?

I remember a time when people collectively agreed that kingmakers and handouts from kings were less impressive and significantly less “American dream” than someone who uses skill, hard work, a good idea, and objectively better whatever to achieve something. This used to be an ideal—and though nepotism was VERY common, we at least as a society frowned upon it and generally knew it was a distasteful thing. People hid the benefits given to them from their forebears. Lately, I am seeing troves of academic research extolling the virtues that nepotism “ain’t that bad,” “isn’t that harmful,” and generally seemingly pushing people toward the thought that (by depriving ourselves of things that could be objectively the best and instead going for mediocre stuff produced by those who aren’t the best at whatever but less risky bc they are well connected and have access to financing or whatever) nepotism is alright, man, and actually pretty cool. Initially I believed these thought pieces were based on fighting back against hyper competitive corporate culture, but I think I am realizing it really evolved from a sense of hopelessness about the unachievability of a true meritocracy. Is the hope for a meritocratic society dead? Have people abandoned the ideal? Why now? What does this mean for everyone with the wrong last name? Is this a normal contraction during tough economic times because people become more averse to risk? Would love to hear thoughts.

Posted Jul 26, 2023, 1:41 PM UTC

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AuthoritieslieOP•

Submission statement: when did we shift from embracing meritocracy as an ideal to completely being disgusted by the thought? What does this mean for those trying to escape their situations? Is this just a pendulum swing before finally reaching balance on the issue?

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when did we shift from embracing meritocracy as an ideal to completely being disgusted by the thought

Are you sure that there ever was such a time?

Segregation was US law for about a century, and was practice before and after, there was the Asian Exclusion Act. Irish people were discriminated against, Catholics were suspect, and so on. Pre-Revolution, membership in a particular denomination was pretty necessary for acceptance or advancement.

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neojoe039•

To be fair a meritocricy was a myth to make it seem like the old money family look like they deserve to rule

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FlipBikeTravis•

I agree, we don't really have an example of a society that can identify and promote merit in some kind of reliable way, or at least meet a minimum standard, nor what that standard is. Its older than old money, it war back to pre-history, people will do almost anything to promote their progeny into success, its an enormous impluse that often operates in secret. No surprise that research would find it "normal" since we don't have counter examples to even point to, they were probably crushed.

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THEMAN89898e•

old money? slave money?

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FlipBikeTravis•

Thanks for linking none of this "troves of acedemic research extolling the virtues that nepotism "ain't that bad"", etc. Then you called them "thought pieces" are you not talking about propaganda in acedemic research or something?

Can you name one society fueled on merit? Can it have nepotistic execeptionalism and still be fueled on merit? Is there a solution to powerful families or dynastic domination? Its a bit tough to answer these questions for myself, maybe someone here has insights.

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AuthoritieslieOP•

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2021.710140/full

https://www.harvardmagazine.com/2023/07/right-now-nepotism

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2021.710140/full#B69

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2021.710140/full#B72

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2021.710140/full#h1 Just for further context on the cited articles^

There is a Malcolm gladwell podcast, “Hamlet was wrong,” and even if you classify if pop psychology, absolutely gets a pulse on current sentiment. The shift to emotional safety/social awareness, while important, has swung the pendulum so far to the opposite side I was just curious whether others have noticed. Take a deep breath and enjoy a beer 🍺

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FlipBikeTravis•

My attempt at merit is met with: take a deep breath and have a beer.

I'll take the citations though, I imagine they are kinda fluffy and I'l find flaws but lets not jump to conclusions about people we know almost nothing about, ok Einstein?

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FlipBikeTravis•

Ok, basically the harvard article is focused on nepotism in the job market. Nepotism is only one factor working against meritocracy, but its assumed merit is more devalued rather than abandoned in these contexts. Its also only in the workforce, so merit as "societal" of course would extend much much further into a greater number of human endeavors. So we can take their statistics, and we can hold off on their conclusions, they take a tight focus and leave a lot of other factors out. So its social science, fluffy and understandably so but trying none the less to be data based. Lets look at the Author, how did he get to write this article? Does he have an online bio or work history? Right away we can see that Merit is not something we can always determine reliably, for instance why does he take such a tight focus on nepotism and the workplace? I feel like too much is screened out to make any conclusions about merit or meritocracy.

The Frontier article samples only 269 persons exclusively in Lithuania! So we can say they can't conclude much outside of that context, and they even admit data is not always available for eastern Europe and

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PrayToGodNotMary•

I believe their plan is a social credit system. Obey and be rewarded. Disobey and be penalized. Be careful what you wish for.

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