Source
r/EA_NHL•
DaddyPls

This shouldn’t have to be explained…

RANT

Especially not to a AAA studio.

TL;DR available, but please read if you can.

NHL 24 has finally been revealed and can be pre purchased for Xbox and PlayStation platforms. Unfortunately, the PC fan base has been left out once again. (This is sad.) A lot of people seem to think this is due to the “development cost” of a PC version and that EA would lose money if they developed for PC. However, if you look at the platforms I mentioned above, you’ll notice the game was developed for the Xbox. That’s very important information. Why? Well, the Xbox OS was written in C, C# and C++ coding languages, supporting Windows apps written in the same languages. The Xbox is also equipped with an AMD Scarlett GPU, which was built to support OpenCL and DirectX 12 graphics APIs. The two most important components when having the conversation of how difficult it would be to port, and in turn, how expensive, are how easy/difficult it is to translate the game’s code to a new language and how easy/difficult it is to translate the graphics to a new API. The harder it is to do those two things, the longer it takes to make a good port. The longer it takes, the more it costs. Now, why is it a big deal that the Xbox has all of those features I talked about? THEY’RE NATIVE TO WINDOWS (and all Nvidia/AMD GPUs support those APIs)! This means there would be virtually no extra time spent developing a “new” version for a new platform, because the game was already made for Xbox and is effectively already compatible with PC.

The argument of EA “losing money” by porting the game to PC is ridiculous considering the cost of porting is typically below $100k given the difficulty of the project (which, as stated, in this case would be extremely easy) and the games sell $60M+ each year. This, added with the fact that PC is a more profitable gaming market by roughly $2B over all consoles combined (as of a 2020 statistic), would imply that they would actually make MORE money if they sold it on PC. This would more than make up for any minor cost for translating Xbox code to PC… which is exactly the same code. They literally spend more money making the game compatible with PlayStation than they would doing so for PC. Profitability is not an issue.

TL;DR: Xbox shares the same coding languages and graphics APIs as Windows. Porting to PC is not “too expensive.” It’s basically free. They spend more time and money developing for the PlayStation than they would for the PC.

Posted Aug 17, 2023, 7:32 PM UTC

157
Petit_Hughie•

Especially not to a AAA studio.

We say AAA studio but IMO the studio that develops NHL isn't a AAA studio and they certainly don't have AAA financing even though the publisher is a AAA company with a AAA budget.

1
butlikewhosthat•

I work at EA Vancouver, not with NHL team, but here, on site. Why would you think EA Vancouver is under-financed?

1
Dergle_McChurgleson•

EA Vancouver has a AAA budget, but by far the majority of that is allocated to FIFA while NHL gets breadcrumbs in comparison

1
SynthRysing•

If only they could somehow allocate more money towards NHL…

1
Future-Trip•

The fact we basically get 5 to 6 iterations of the same game is a pretty telling sign.

1
PrinceDizzy•

It's easier to develop for consoles with their fixed hardware and specs than it is to undertake development for gaming PC's with all the different variations and variables that come with it.

NHL is pretty niche compared to other sports games and sports games are pretty niche on PC compared to console, as a huge fan this is one of the reasons why I prefer console gaming over PC.

1
EndoMillsTV•

Finally, someone who talks some sense in this hellhole. I'd give it two years till they can actually address the PC crowd with the new creative leads listening to almost all community feedback as well.

1
ChrisInBaltimore•

These threads are really tiring and someone always makes a sensible comment.

1
Jlnhlfan•

Hi, Endo!

1
TomLikesGuitar•

Don't forget about supporting m&kb AND supporting additional apis for networking on steam (as well as the slew of other hooks into things like the store integration and stuff) AND the QA and TRC ramifications.

It is what it is but I'll never get used to these sorts of posts of non devs acting like they know what they are talking about.

1
PrinceDizzy•

Great points.

1
Travy93Travy93•

Tf you're a weird PC hater. All your posts are negative PC gaming news.

1
Autumn_Souls•

Why are you bringing up QA? It's VERY clear EA does not test their games

1
LikeARollingRock•

https://media.tenor.com/93FAqGfxBecAAAAC/jeez-thats-too-bad-cable-company-worker.gif

1
ClubChaos•

Your preaching to the choir here bud - go to EA forums and try to debate community mods. Be prepared to be gaslit and that we are just dumb dumbs who don't understand smart man Mr. EA

1
scamden66•

They think they won't sell enough copies to make it worth porting.

They don't even port a legacy edition it to the Switch which has the chance to be the best selling console of all time.

1
h3vonen•

FIFA EA FC, which is arguably the flagsip product is coming to switch this year. As it is the same engine, we could see others follow a year or two later.

1
AIC_333•

They just don’t want the community to mod their game and actually make it decent because they’ll lose sales

1
mpmatx•

I think it’s time you just set up a Go Fund Me for the cost to port to PC because that’s the only way this is gonna happen.

1
Mangunz•

This is honestly a great idea

1
Majestic_Potato79•

https://y.yarn.co/efaca016-3db0-4fdd-9f5c-a110779d3048_text.gif

1
the_tinsmith•

I'm fine with this. Any game I've played with cross platform, the PC folks always have a huge distinct advantage against console in some fashion.

1
Travy93Travy93•

In shooting games where it is easier to be precise with a mouse... Driving and sports games are always better with a controller. Only crazy people use mouse and keyboard on rocket league for example. I can't imagine trying to play NHL with a mouse and keyboard.

1
Griffithead•

You have no idea what you are talking about and are just making up numbers.

Stop it.

Supporting PC vs. A console is a huge undertaking. Every single computer has a different configuration.

Yes, it's easier than it used to be. It's still not easy.

Most sales of a PC release are going to be poaching console sales because NHL is such a niche sport.

They will sell one copy to someone and then they will just mod it. And never buy another copy.

I know you want it. I do too! But stop ignoring reality and making things up to support that fact.

1
TomLikesGuitar•

AAA engineer who worked at a port shop early in my career here.

Reddit is an insane hive of people who think they know what they are talking about but god damn the people who say things about video games "matter of factly" is absolutely insane lol.

Good on you for understanding that this dude is spewing complete nonsense.

1
detroitttiorted•

As a developer(non-gaming) non-technical people talking about technical things in gaming subs is hard to read a lot of times. There’s just so many things that are like nails on chalkboard to me. Anyone with a CS degree saw tons of these people fail out of the 100 level classes when they realized the exams aren’t just listing facts about the newest graphics card on the market

The funniest was once a guy made a post(or comment) about how EA is lazy and evil because they sort bugs in 4 tiers with different level of priorities. Aka basic incident/bug management

Also “X thing should be in the game and y thing exists so it would be easy to do” when they have never seen a single line of the code base

If porting to PC was easy they would have done it. Like what possible reason could there be to not do it if it’s easy and will make money like so many have claimed? While I think the NHL series has made many bad decisions I don’t think that they have simply forgotten that is an option.

1
TomLikesGuitar•

Yeah man, I'm in the game AI space and I am unbelievably thankful to not have to work on an AI system that has to look like a realistic reflection of a real life sport, mistakes and flaws included, AND needs to be tunable to be fun but without sacrificing said realism and also has to be balanced... etc...

I just landed a sick job after a recent layoff, but I was in the process with EA for an opening on NHL bc, like, I can't not apply there whenever I see an opening lol...

But man I def count my blessings when I see posts like OPs shitting on the game.

Then again I see posts shitting on every studio I've worked at for every game I've released and even games I've had cancelled so it's just inevitable lol.

1
Agitated-Soil7121•

Yeah true that. I think that’s what madden really struggles with and it’s not really there fault. Have cpu play good football is extremely hard to do because any type of non standard physics can come into the game at any time. While I think nhl is a little bit better at it, I simply say that because nhl is simply set up better then madden nhl got 10 guys on the ice compared to 22 guys on a football field. Typically how nhl is set up to is better u can play a full team unlike in madden you can’t really do that

1
Hobo_Healy•

But OP said that it was "basically free"! It's just so easy! You just flip a switch! Surely OP knows what they're talking about right?

1
downingrust12•

So what you are saying is, it does take time and effort to port a game but ea wont because it takes effort rather than just to copy/paste. Because modders and the nhl community can likely put in a better effort within the first 3 hours of release...sounds about right.

1
Griffithead•

Not what I am saying at all. This EA is lazy argument is so tired. If you are going to use it, at least rail on all the incredibly stupid bugs they let through.

It does take time and effort. Also even more effort to try and ensure it works on all the different PC hardware. Not to mention having support staff to handle it.

All of it takes money. And they wouldn't get any sort of return on it. So why would they? Oh. I forgot. Because you want it. And called them names. Perfectly good reasons to light money on fire.

1
h3vonen•

I’ve made this argument on other threads so many times during the last five years on reddit that I feel like I’m repeating myself but it’s not even a development level issue, there is some chance EA could outsource the port and probably get enough sales to make it worth it.

But it is a quality assurance (QA) nightmare, especially when anyone who has played the game in the last 8 years knows the QA-department is underfunded, overworked resulting in letting through something like the current BAP. The QA is already a joke and to add a platform with so much device variance well it’s basically all the same if the EULA started that the product is sold ’as is’ and that EA will not take any responsibilities if it worked on your device or not. No refunds possible.

The only platform harder to support to is Android and (specifically if android TV is supported).

1
Griffithead•

So right.

I actually work in QA. I can't play BAP anymore because it gives me so much anxiety and rage. Although, to be fair, it doesn't even seem like QA touched it at all, so maybe we can't blame them.

1
h3vonen•

You work in QA so you know at all is hyperbole. They probably barely touched it, provided an endless list and the team fixed the bugs that crashed the mode or corrupted the save file. But then it was time for the rest of the bugs and more important modes.

1
Accomplished-Cat7679•

I think the modding is the main reason. I mean some people still play a modded NHL 09.

1
[deleted]•

[removed]

1
[deleted]•

[removed]

1
AceConspirator•

Dude just buy an XBox. They can be had for $150.

1
Ubigo:psn:[NETWORK ID] PitbullFromMiami•

Pc people need to stop complaining.

1
PetterssonsNeck•

I’m very interested in contributing to a hockey game for pc in any way I can. I know nothing of programming and coding, but I have media abilities (artwork, UX/UI, music, SFX)

1
JockoGood•

Google “NHL 04 Rebuilt”

https://theathletic.com/3027314/2021/12/22/travel-to-a-land-where-its-always-2004-and-meet-the-people-who-refuse-to-let-ea-sports-nhl-04-die/?amp=1

1
PetterssonsNeck•

I’ve seen this and 2KHS but I’m wanting an actual game made for PC

1
Select_Owl6593•

Frankly I wouldn’t want to play cross platform against people who may be modding or hacking. I think that’s a legitimate concern in a competitive game where it’s all but impossible for the average person to do.

1
Tay0214•

Honestly you’re the first I’ve seen bring this up and it’s a good point. I wouldn’t exactly trust them to put a good anti cheat together

Combine that with HUT and you’d have a disaster waiting to happen

1
[deleted]•

[removed]

1
djlista•

It's cause people would just mod it and won't buy the next year game and EA is so greedy. Like look at their ultimate team mode. I just got 3 99's for free today in NBA for simply completing some challenges on pro difficulty lol. You gotta spend thousands in HUT to even get a 87 purple lol.

You gotta know this is the most swamp greed company to ever exist. They chase every cent.

1
ProjectBreakaway•

I posted this in a few other posts, but I think it's a good time to share a plan I've been working on.

I have a massive business plan for a new, better, competitive, club-based hockey video game for both PC and Console. I've been working on it for the past year. Unfortunately, I have no game development skills myself other than a passion for this idea I've had for over the past year. This is a detailed business plan, which is over 45 pages long, including a mission plan, long-term key features, sustainability, and market analysis.

While I may not have game development skills myself, I am an adult with (fortunately) a good paying career and have begun setting aside some capital with the intent to collaborate with people experienced in game development.

I also fully acknowledge that there are plenty of "idea" people out there, but as far as I'm aware, not many have considered taking on the goliath that is EA to at lwast create a competitor in the market since 2K. The only way for the vritual hockey to grow is to cultivate market competition, and that's exactly what my plan aims to achieve.

I'd be happy to discuss my plan with anyone legitimately interested in growing the competitive hockey video game market, especially on PC. I understand there are some who can't believe that this can be done or still support EA, which is totally fine as long as they find value and enjoyment in the product. I'm hoping to reach (hrough my own financial investment) newer, exciting markets that can eventually propel virtual hockey into bigger and better things on all platforms 🙂.

Badger Bob Johnson would often say "It’s A Great Day for Hockey". I hope to make that true for us hockey fans on all video game mediums!

1
Autumn_Souls•

hire me. I'll be the guy who tells the guys what franchise mode needs to have

1
Logical-Bit-746•

There is just so so so so so much more that goes into these kinds of things than simply profit. Every single company in the world world choose the options to keep making more profit if they could; who wouldn't?

It's about resources availability and capabilities, company and board priorities, support, branding, marketing, maintenance of additional servers, etc.

As someone that manages massive projects for companies of varying sizes: if it was that easy, everyone would do it. Sometimes throwing more money at something doesn't solve the problem. To start, do you know what it takes for a company to even decide to launch a new project? There needs to be business cases and serious plans just to determine its feasibility (sorry, a Reddit analysis wouldn't suffice for a business decision of this size). Once they decide to make a PC port, they need to either bring resources from other teams or train new resources, because you can't have one person develop 3 games and assume, just because it's a similar language, it should be easy... They need additional QA resources because you can't assume because it's the same language and API it will have the same bugs. They need new marketing, to produce new cd/dvd hardware; hell, even packaging a new digital version will require effort. Then pay the steam fees and GeForce cloud fees to host it on their platforms (again, need to make sure you're still actually making money after everything, not just assuming because it's an easy port it must be cheap).

I can honestly keep going on about the effort required to plan, execute, and monitor a project of this size, nevermind branding and marketing that need to be audited and redone, JUST to sell a new version.

Not trying to shit on your thought process, but it just isn't as easy as people assume.

1