Source
r/brum•
halfercode

Police operation confiscating (illegal) e-bikes

About a month ago there was a small police operation in the pedestrianised area of New Street. They seemed to be targetting food delivery folks, who nearly all seem to be using cheap-and-cheerful retro-fit bike motor kits. The bikes were being loaded into a police van, and I suspect they were going to the crusher.

Unfortunately most of these are not road legal. They are over-powered (you can often tell because the hub motor is as big as a dinner plate - 1000W instead of 250W) and they have a throttle control (the regulations say that the power needs to assist pedalling, and if it can be independently controlled then the vehicle has become a moped). You can have a bike any power you like, but if it does not meet the cycle classification, you have to insure+tax as if it were a moped.

I feel a bit conflicted about this. I use the takeaway delivery apps myself, and doing food delivery probably isn't fun nor well-remunerated work, and someone who has their bike taken by the police is probably going to struggle financially to replace it. They will presumably not be able to work while they don't have a bike.

On the other hand, I'd say - as an cyclist myself - most of these riders are complete idiots. Skipping red lights is the norm, as is pushing past considerate cyclists to get to the front of the lights queue. Balaclava-wearing is common, and I assume this is so a food delivery cyclist that does something stupid cannot be later identified by camera footage. Assistance speeds are going past 25mph when they should be 15mph.

I stopped a rider the other day who crossed into a blind bend without checking around the corner - he could have been flattened by traffic coming out of a junction. But he spoke nearly no English, and could not understand what I wanted to tell him. If he were involved in an accident, he'd be useless.

For the sake of discussion, what's your experience of Deliveroo and Uber cyclists? I think Just Eat are in a separate category, because Just Eat seem to be supplying their own (orange) bikes, and I would guess they're road legal.

Food delivery peeps: if there's any hereabouts, don't be shy! Why are retro-fit kits so common? Is it difficult to get a road legal one from eBay? Might you change your kit if police confiscations were to become more common?

Posted Sep 9, 2023, 7:14 PM UTC

175
psycho-mouse•

Cunts race down New Street. Crush all their bikes IDGAF.

Follow the law or don’t complain when you get found out.

1
SwirlingAbsurdity•

Yeah if they rode considerately I wouldn’t care, but so many of them are reckless cunts.

1
blameitontheboogie92•

i agree. they are very dangerous and illegal. always running reds. crush em.

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1
shaggydnb•

It's not just the top speed but the power, 250 Watts is nothing, takes ages to pull away from lights compared to cars. I've got a dual 1000w motor scooter which hits over 30mph, it feels so much safer to ride on the road than my 350 watt single motor scooter.

1
halfercodeOP•

My road bike has a Shimano 250W motor, I suspect I'm getting 60N/m of torque. That's not as much as a Bosch Performance CX, which can probably do 75N/m with the same power rating, but to be fair, I think it's enough to launch oneself safely into traffic.

That said, I tend to avoid ring road roundabouts anyway, which is probably where you most need to keep your wits about you. Since the start of the pandemic Brum roads have gotten worse in terms of driving safety, and even if it takes a bit longer, the underpass just feels rather safer.

1
thr_drengur•

I have the Bosch unit on a cargo bike... I can keep up with traffic in that 0 to 15mph range with little issue.

They aren't cheap units though... and you need decent batteries to power them. On average 250W motors are pretty weedy in comparison.

1
Fringie•

I had an ebike that was 250w, was plenty good. if you feel like it's not enough get a motorcycle IMO..

1
Fringie•

same as yours. they're ruining something good

1
james_pic•

I think we're kinda between a rock and a hard place with this stuff.

I don't know how much these companies pay, but I used to work for a logistics company that had the same model of drivers all being independent contractors who were paid a piece rate. They always said it was so they could handle spikes and troughs in work, but it it was generally acknowledged internally that a major reason was that they weren't liable if drivers failed to make minimum wage, which they frequently didn't.

So you've got these drivers who are struggling to get by, and get paid by the item. So they're left with little choice but to cheat the system in every way they can.

I think as long as the government gives gig economy "disruptors" free reign to bend employment law, we're going to see gig workers bending other laws to make up the difference.

1
halfercodeOP•

Thanks, yeah. I have the same doubts.

I usually tip on the platform I use, though sadly - and this is a separate complaint - some of them can't read a map and are entirely unable to ask for directions. But I am aware that my trivial tipping isn't tackling a systemic problem, which is that if you need to squash in as many jobs as you can, you're being incentivised to travel as quickly as possible, and not as safely as possible.

I did wonder if I might ping a note to one of these platforms to see what they are doing for cycle safety, but it's nigh-on impossible to talk to a suitably empowered human in corporations these days, and they're much more interested in legal arse-covering than taking a reasonable suggestion seriously.

1
psycho-mouse•

Tipping just encourages both law breaking by the company and law breaking by the delivery workers.

1
halfercodeOP•

I tend to say that boycotts don't work, because in general the impact on a company is so diffuse that it's hard for them to understand what behaviour they need to change to restore their profits. So a "micro-boycott", where one uses a food delivery platform but does not tip, would not achieve any useful goal at all - other than making minimum wage folks a bit poorer. Getting the message to Deliveroo (about cycling safety, or zero-hour contract exploitation, etc) is hard to do in a meaningful way.

(The food delivery folks get 100% of tips in the UK, so the platforms probably don't care if you tip, except perhaps that it might help a little with staff retention).

1
woogeroo•

I’m in favour of all enforcement action, the majority are for sure dangerous and rude, endanger other cyclists and give us a bad name as they cruise straight through red lights and pavements without a thought.

It’s be nice if we can do the same to the many many more motorists that have contempt for road safety and the law. Preferably with video of their cars being crushed uploaded to YouTube.

Any men walking/cycling around covering their face are guaranteed to be a criminal piece of shit.

1
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1
grumpy-kunt•

It's the riders fault if they chose to waste money on a bike that's at risk of being taken off you at any moment.

1
Magnitude_V1•

They're a nuisance. I have no issue if they actually respect others but they don't. I can forgive going through certain red lights where there is zero risk to themselves or anyone else but the amount that go through pedestrian crossings and blast down pavements is crazy.

I've almost been wiped out by them a few times when I've been cycling as they have no awareness of anything around them and if they do hit me and damage my bike who pays for that? If I'm hit by a car I have their insurance to claim against.

The very minimum there should be a law change to force all food delivery drivers whether car or bike, to have a visible ID just like we have with taxi's (bring this in for Ubers too cos they're just as much or a menace)

1
Same_Abalone4232•

Funnily enough, I was having a similiar discussion with my partner after someone on an overpowered push bike tried to cut up my moped heading through Kings Heath.

I get the need for speed, the reasons why and so on but goddamn, I'm super careful because it's not just my life and limb if something goes wrong yet people with far less protection (armored jacket, helmet, gloves, tough boots & combats vs guy in a puffer jacket and occasionally cycling helmet) do some frankly really stupid shit to eke out literal fractions of a second. Be it directly swerving in front of me, trying to jostle me for position, flying down roads & pathways practicaly blind, even had one delivery guy postively rocket down a canal I was walking down the other day, running lights and just general dumbassery.

1
Intelligent-Welder-2•

lol. This isn’t a difficult conversation. Mostly foreign workers are used as effective slave labour by companies who all but mandate recklessness by their pay methods, provide zero training, require a hefty amount of self investment in equipment, provide zero safety training or road training, take a cut of their pay and then stand clear when they do something wrong or get hurt. These people are slaves. Don’t kid yourself. When general xenophobia stops them getting other types of employment, this is a way of getting something and they are made to work for it so lazy smug fckers, myself included, can pretend we’re being generous by giving them a tip if they turn up on time. Who do you think sets your delivery estimate times?? Certainly isn’t them. Who gets pissy when they poor bstard is 5 mins late because he probably stopped at red light, so doesn’t tip him or complains, so he gets paid nothing. Try a day in their shoes and you’d soon stfu. And to the other cyclist, get off your bike you cnts. Like you’ve never run a red light, conveniently hopped onto a pavement around a light or just been an elitist dck before. Let’s bring in visible ID’s for all of you. They wear balaclavas because they are sucking exhaust fumes for hours! Not your 30 minute commute down Bristol road’s bike lane. Hours and hours, on the road, breathing fumes.

As a side note, as someone close to the police force, Operations like this are political fckery at its finest. Some dick higher brass goes after easy pickings because they’ve achieved fck all all year and needs the numbers ahead of budget review. The poor common folk are the easiest target as they are less likely to know the law, less likely to have a solicitor in their phone book, and generally skirting the law just to get by in life. Many of these guys will not have work permits, another thing the delivery apps are well aware of. These operations are usually two-fold and will have Border agents attached. Or they know that the riders will be too scared of this that they won’t put up a fight.

Sorry for the clear anger hear, but f*ck me the lack of empathy from some people here is astounding.

1
halfercodeOP•

(FYI: I'll respond separately, but your * swear devices are monkeying around with the Markdown - hence the random italics on old-Reddit).

1
Intelligent-Welder-2•

Sorry.

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SquireBevEdgbaston 🏳️‍🌈•

Honestly, just fucking swear. It's the Internet, not your Nan's front room.

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halfercodeOP•

It's OK, Brummie's don't have especially delicate ears! 😆

1
Intelligent-Welder-2•

I should add, i don’t hate cyclist, I’ve been a cyclist for many years in many places. So I’m coming from a place of decent self awareness. I’ve definitely thought “oh it’s just 1 red light, besides, no one can identify and report me” whistling down the road not making eye contact with anyone.

1
halfercodeOP•

I'd agree with some of this, and I tried to capture some sympathy for riders in my post. I don't think reckless cycling is some sort of "genetic fault" of the Deliveroo driver, I think it's that the financial and social circumstances of the Deliveroo driver encourages reckless cycling.

I acknowledge there is a balance to be struck when we assess the personal agency of the rider. We can examine their circumstances (e.g. working on a casual labour arrangement at around minimum wage) and then try to determine how much they are able to care about other road users (cycling safety) while being under pressure to hit targets (pay their rent at the end of the month). It's a hard judgement to make, especially when it's harder to obey the rules if you're poor, or you're in a foreign country, or you haven't yet mastered the language.

Where I disagree a bit is whether this is a "difficult conversation". I think it is exceptionally difficult, as the wide set of views on the page might attest. I sometimes joke that the art of politics is the ability to hold conflicting ideas in one's head at the same time, and so it is here: can we have empathy for people caught up in the casualisation of labour while being critical of their second-order effects? Cautiously, I think we can.

I'm not a natural defender of the police, but I wonder if they are in a bind. As soon as they know there is a widespread flaunting of a law, they have to decide how to respond before the behaviours spiral any further. They might decide that teenagers smoking dope is something they'll walk past, and idiots on souped-up bikes is something they won't. Perhaps this is to do with the consequences of ignoring it: if we have an e-bike fatality in the future (involving an over-powered bike) then the police will be pressed on why they didn't address it. Rock and a hard-place, as usual!

1
Lucifer1903•

Looks like you're being down voted because people here don't like to hear the truth.

1
Intelligent-Welder-2•

Sad but unsurprising. People don’t like to accept they are contributing to slave labour while sitting behind a computer screen criticising these slaves for not working politely with a smile.

1
halfercodeOP•

People don’t like to accept they are contributing to slave labour

Ethical living isn't in fashion as much as I might like, and I suppose during an economic crisis, there's even less appetite for it. But I fear there is no such thing as ethical consumerism, since the economic systems are not built for ordinary people, and the wiggle room we each might exercise is mostly too small to have much of an effect.

I am interested in your implication though: should we not use the food delivery tech platforms? I think I understand how coercion works within capitalism, but I wonder if zero-hour contracts are not so onerous that no-one wants to do them. One could argue that in an economic crisis, food delivery people have no other choice, but I observe that they seem to want the work in a boom period too.

I mentioned elsewhere that I am somewhat cautious about boycotts. I tend to agree with their aims, I just wonder if they are not very effective, and getting everyone to boycott at the same time - a very tough message to sell - is the only way they are going to work.

I thus tend to prefer legislation as a tool to keep corporatism under control, but we'd need a political party that was openly interested in championing working people, and I don't think we're going to see that sort of ideology emerge for the next five to ten years at least.

1
Intelligent-Welder-2•

Coincidentally an article on this topic in the guardian.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2023/sep/14/dodging-death-and-immigration-officers-12-hours-as-a-london-fast-food-rider-and-all-for-40

1
BossImpossible8858•

Pretty much bang on. The police will have a "crackdown" on easy pickings like this, then when your nan is being burgled there are "no officers available".

Where are the officers? Taking some poor cunt's bike off him.

1
edmunek•

do you want to cycle? then cycle you want a bike which goes quick? get a motorbike, insure it and etc.

Using these ebikes they way how it is at the moment leads to seize and on this occassion I am with the police.

1
ChadQuaza•

they wouldn't be delivery drivers if, you know, they could actually afford to do that

1
halfercodeOP•

I have no idea, but I should think that buying a second-hand moped and insuring it would not be expensive? I suppose fuel is not cheap though, and I should think they're getting paid ~£2.50 per 20-minute job...

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1
BossImpossible8858•

Fuel is not that expensive for a moped, but insurance for delivery drivers is a fortune.

1
0rlan•

So that makes it ok to break the law?

1
ChadQuaza•

no, but the longer we blame workers for issues caused by wealth inequality, the further we damn ourselves as a society to be forever exploited and taken advantage of

1
UnholyDoughnuts•

I've rode a few motor bikes in my time from 900+cc to 250cc etc dunno why but in my time I've borrowed a lot of mates bikes for one reason or another. Anyway the bike it self is designed to be a bike whether it's an off road scrambler to a sports bike it's the design it's not gonna fall apart on you for pushing it to the max speed of the bike (unless it's got an underlying issue). This is not the case for these glorified push bikes they're risking not only their lives but the lives of others and for once the police did something useful. Maybe if they're that determined to insure a moped they should buy a hair dryer... woops I mean moped.

1
ChadQuaza•

we should've learned since the reagan and thatcher limitation that trying to solve problems rooted in economic poverty by arresting people is nothing but a way for the government to avoid taking responsibility for itself

in other words, fuck the police, we should be prioritising getting to the root of this problem rather than trying to crush it and pretend it doesn't exist

1
Ar72•

I had a modified bike overtake me a few months ago, I was doing 40 Mph the guy on the bike has no helmet and was only wearing a shorts and a t-shirt. If you fall off at those speeds it's not going to be good.

1
halfercodeOP•

Yeah, I have no idea why someone doing those speeds isn't at least wearing a helmet.

To be fair I would say that most of the modified e-bikes I'm talking about here can do 20-25mph. It's faster than the legal assistance speed (at least without moped registration and insurances) but not quite as the example you mention.

1
tramp123•

To be fair I think there should be a change on the law, the police say ‘they need insuring’ how can anyone get insurance on a vehicle like this? It isn’t available. I’m sure if it was available and was correctly priced more people would have it! There is also this epidemic of electric scooters on the streets, it’s clear that people want to use them (as you see so many!) but there’s no mechanism in uk law to cater for them (unless you are hiring one in the city center) other countries seem to have adopted them so much easier. I went to Iceland last year and they electric scooters were everywhere.

My final point is that if people aren’t driving these vehicles correctly that’s surely the drivers fault. If there was correct legislation in you could have mandatory training as part of a licence. There are bad car drivers out there - we have all seen the dash cam videos, but it doesn’t mean we should remove all cars because a minority of people aren’t responsible

1
halfercodeOP•

how can anyone get insurance on a vehicle like this? It isn’t available.

It might be available, but for someone who doesn't have great English and plenty of time to jump through administrative hoops, it may be too onerous to be worth the bother.

Firstly one has to obtain "type approval" from an MOT station, and I think once that is obtained, an S-Pedelec or generic moped insurance may suffice. Normally dealers/importers will do this, but that's not possible for custom builds. Then one has to obtain Compulsory Basic Training, ensure the lights are compliant with the moped rules, attach a number plate, obtain a free vehicle tax and registration, obtain a provisional driving license, and purchase a motorcycle-type helmet. The various responsibilities are well-documented here.

Easy, right? 🤣

1
BossImpossible8858•

It isnt available, regardless of your grasp of English.

1
ChadQuaza•

i'm not against confiscating these bicycles considering how dangerous they may be, but i think it's practically psychopathic to celebrate this and want punishment for the delivery drivers

1
Uk_gee•

These guys are often riding pretty dangerously on technically illegal bikes.

But I would also say that, as a slightly separate conversation, our rules on electric bicycles are really tepid and fail to take advantage of the benefits these sorts of bikes could bring. The rules don't actually leave quite enough torque or power to power decent size, heavy frame cargo bikes that would be really useful for this sort of delivery (and for things like and there should be more relaxation of other aspects like the ability to use a throttle to power the bike. You can technically register these bikes but then you end up needing to do stuff like put a full size registration plate and wear a full size helmet on them. It would be great if there was a separate classification of vehicles with a bit more oomph that you could register legally and ride without tax etc as you could get so many cars off the road.

1
halfercodeOP•

Yeah, good thoughts.

The rules on e-bikes came from harmonising with EU legislation prior to Brexit. However there is a classification in Germany called the S-Pedelec, which permits a higher power limit and a higher maximum assistance speed, while refraining from onerous registration requirements that often put people off.

I'd like to see that in the UK, but I am not sure I would want the food delivery crowd using them. Of course that's a problem in its own right, since if they won't use S-Pedelecs (e.g. because there's a proficiency test) then they'll just carry on flouting the law with retro-fit kits in the way that they're doing right now.

1
Uk_gee•

Yeh exactly, if they were registered or even had something like a small plate on that could be used to ID the rider then people would be much more accountable and you could enforce bad riding much better. Its worth pointing out that in places like the Netherlands you can actually ride 50cc petrol mopeds and scooters on cycle lanes (and even very small cars 'sans permit' type cars actually which you often see elderly or disabled people doing) and it works very well. So you can definitely integrate these sorts of vehicles into cycle infrastructure in the right circumstances. Of course it would never work in the UK because our cycle lanes are so terrible.

1
thr_drengur•

If you bring them into a workable legal framework, they'll be better trained and behaved on the roads as a whole.

At the moment it's in for a penny, in for a pound 🤷‍♂️

1
0rlan•

Technically illegal? I think you'll find they are Actually illegal...

1
Skiamakhos•

These people pretty much kept Birmingham going during lockdown. They make minimum wage on a zero hours basis doing a frankly dangerous job. The fact that the UK hasn't caught up to the rest of the world on EVs is a source of shame. We should be leading, not rounding up our essential workers' livelihoods & crushing them.

1
Creepy_Raisin7431•

Fun fact, we rarely get minimum wage. Sometimes we can earn above it, but the vast majority of the time we are around £9 an hour or so, its rare to earn nothing in an hour but at the same time I think we have all had it happen at least sometime during a week, every week. £4 an hour happens at some point most days. We do it for various reasons ( me personally I just prefer it, but in a car, and it gives me some extra money ) As you can probably see we could not really do what we do if the law required minimum wage.

1
halfercodeOP•

In relation to e-bikes, we are lucky here in that we have a healthy supply of first-rate bikes to choose from (using motors from Bosch, Yamaha, Brose, Shimano, and Specialized). However I suspect this is not the category being discussed here - the retro-fit kits are often fire-hazard no-brand imports from China.

I wonder though by "EVs", did you mean cars specifically? I agree that we need to improve the charging infrastructure, and of course the inflationary crisis presently doesn't make an electric car economical to drive.

1
Skiamakhos•

No, I mean personal electric vehicles - bikes, EUCs, scooters etc. Cars are already covered under existing legislation, as are electric motorbikes, but there's a whole class of way more efficient vehicles that are in use all over the world now, that fall between the cracks so to speak, and since the government classes them as basically unhomologated powered vehicles but at the same time they're lightweight and emissions free, then the logic behind road tax just doesn't hold. They're not causing wear & tear on the road, and they're not causing emissions - unless you're on a non-green domestic supply like almost nobody is these days. That's the whole reason they're crushing them, because they're currently illegal to ride on anything but private land, and not for reasons of safety.

When a bicycle can match the speed & flow of the motor traffic on the road it is safer and less of a problem for other road users. The legal e-bikes we have only give a boost up to 22mph. I have one myself. It's okay as a method of getting about but I tend to stick to park cycle lanes and canal towpaths. Since you can't match speed like I can on my motorbike or in my car, road riding is a matter of being constantly overtaken, often dangerously close by much larger vehicles. Ordinary bicycles are inherently dangerous and an inconvenience to others, where a fully powered e-bike or e-unicycle wouldn't be, assuming the rider wears some basic protective gear like a helmet & some armoured, abrasion resistant clothing.

Not sure what your problem with Chinese manufacturers is. London Fire Brigade gives some advice on their site here: https://www.london-fire.gov.uk/safety/the-home/electrical-items/batteries-and-chargers/ - note that they're way more concerned with overcharging, water ingress and physical damage, which they mention overtly, than China, which is curiously absent from the site.

1
halfercodeOP•

and since the government classes them as basically unhomologated powered vehicles but at the same time they're lightweight and emissions free, then the logic behind road tax just doesn't hold.

Ah, I see what you mean. You're referring to the legislation around these vehicles; yes, I agree. In your original post you didn't mention it was the lack of legislative update that you had a problem with.

Since you can't match speed like I can on my motorbike or in my car, road riding is a matter of being constantly overtaken, often dangerously close by much larger vehicles.

We are probably not in any disagreement. I theorise that since the start of the pandemic, there was a fracturing of society when people realised how brittle their employment was, particularly in hospitality. Perhaps fuelled by other types of gradual societal breakdown, one can see an urgency and a frustration in motor vehicle driving that I think was not there in Birmingham before (and it was not great to start with).

Not sure what your problem with Chinese manufacturers is

There was a fatality in Cambridge linked to fire-hazard batteries just this year. All e-bike batteries are probably made in the Far East, and the ones from Panasonic and Sanyo (etc) are going to be very good indeed. But the ones that are a problem probably do not have thermal regulation or a Battery Management System, which will shut the battery down in the event of malfunction. I should think the manufacturers of such batteries know they are hazardous, and they export them anyway.

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1
mavit0•

You can spot some illegal e-bikes a mile off, because they have enormous mittens attached to the handlebars. I'm pretty sure that pedal cyclists don't get cold hands like that, even with electric assistance.

1
halfercodeOP•

I've seen those, though in the current humid weather, I can't see how the additional wind speed would cause a rider to be chilly! They must be roasting.

1
Disastrous-Pepper391•

Fuck the law.

Don’t be a sheep.

1
halfercodeOP•

I wonder if the question hints at how to balance competing rights, and that's really the discussion I think it would be good to have. They say the law is an ass, but tearing it down completely may be counterproductive.

I take it you aren't in favour of the law in relation to limiting power and speed on e-bikes. Are you not in favour of any restrictions? E-bikes can be made to do 60mph with the right kit - is that a reasonable trade-off of takeaway delivery efficiency and the safety of pedestrians?

Do you wish to tear down the import laws that protect consumers (including food delivery folks) from batteries that catch fire when they are charged? If so, why?

1
Disastrous-Pepper391•

No. I’m not an anarchist. (Anymore).

I live by adhering to the laws I agree with and flouting the silly trivial bollocks I don’t agree with. Tv licence, riding my e-scooter and smoking a little herb.

That’s about it.

1
0rlan•

Nope sorry. I'm not going along with those arguing 'we don't pay them enough so they're allowed to break the law'. We should crush all illegal vehicles - bikes, cars, vans, whatever - and charge the owners the cost of doing so.

1
thr_drengur•

I don't think anyone is saying they should be allowed to break the law, people are saying that the system these people are trying to work under is pushing them to break the law or starve.

Others point out that these types of vehicles aren't insurable as the law is outdated and doesn't cater to them.

Crushing their bikes is treating the symptoms, not the cause.

1
Huge-Pension-•

I love that I've just opened this app and already there is a generalisation that all e-bikers are twats.

1
halfercodeOP•

I'd estimate that 80%+ of the food delivery people I happen to be following will skip the next light (whether they are on an e-bike or a regular bike). I think I see a regular cyclist (not doing food delivery) skip a red light once a year maybe.

Thus I don't think the electrification of bikes makes a difference. I think there's a pressure on food delivery folks to maximise their jobs or their tipping, and that this is creating a safety-averse culture.

1
ceelo_purple•

Is it not dangerous cycling around town with your eyes closed?

Seriously, though. I'm also a cyclist and I see this fairly frequently, especially with the delivery drivers because of the perverse incentive situation. If they're heading for a red and they feel they'd be able to cross the junction safely if there weren't traffic lights, they'll crack on through the red so as not to lose momentum.

You see the same thing from Strava Wankers trying for a pb, for whom I have considerably less sympathy.

1
Huge-Pension-•

I have NEVER seen anyone cut a red light in the city CENTRE you would be annihilated by the traffic!

This isn't some sleepy village where there is no traffic incoming.

All these thousands of people cutting red lights must be extremely lucky not to get splattered somehow.

Legit I think this is something that people see once and then generalize it to "oh it's everyone"

1
ceelo_purple•

Absolutely wild that two people can have such different experiences.

Out of curiosity, are you picturing this happening on arterial roads like the ringroad? Or do you perhaps work a 9-5 and only tend to be cycling at times of peak traffic and few food deliveries?

Because it's otherwise blowing my mind that you've managed not to notice this. Get yourself up to Hurst Street and bagsy a table outside one of the gay bars at about 7pm when Deliveroo starts to really get into gear.

1