Bootlegger for character QoL improvements

Homebrew

I've often seen the bootlegger used to give certain character Quality of Life improvements. I wanted to make a list of the most common ones I've seen for certain characters, and thought I'd post it to reddit. If you know of a bootlegger rule that I didn't mention below, please let me know the rule, I'm interested to know.

-Amnesiac: The Amnesiac always gains true info on their ability guesses, even if dead.

This rule is meant to circumvent early deaths and droisoning from preventing the amnesiac to even have a chance of knowing what they do. There is a reason this is a staple in all-amnesiac games, it makes amnesiac much more enjoyable without really changing the core of the character. Droisoning and death still mess with the secret amnesiac ability.

-Huntsman: They can use their ability twice per game.

When asking people what the worst townsfolk character is, Huntsman is the most common answer, and it's easy to see why: they add ambiguity to the outsider count, and if they end up adding the Damsel as an extra outsider, it doesn't do much more than re-adding a townsfolk that they took away to begin with, making them only about as useful as a washerwoman or a grandmother, and that is provided they DO find the Damsel. The problem is that the Damsel is trying to hide. Just compare Huntsman to Slayer. Both are looking for 1 specific target that is trying to stay hidden, but when the Slayer hits, it either wins the game, or severely cripples the evil team, meanwhile the Huntsman mainly takes away a losing condition. The slayer can use their ability while they're on the block, the Huntsman needs to wait till night and risks losing the ability through execution. The Huntsman makes the outsider count less consistent, the slayer doesn't. Anyways, putting that ramble behind us, this bootlegger rule is supposed to make the Huntsman a little more reliable for the good team.

-King: They also gain a role if the number of dead players equal the number of living players.

The King isn't exactly all that strong, since the Demon knows who they are. The potential to receive their first role a day early, gives them a slight boost without really changing anything about it's core idea.

-Poppy Grower: Evil players know the roles of the other people on their team.

Social deduction games similar to clocktower, tend to work because you have an uninformed majority fight against an informed minority. Poppy Grower flips that on it's head, and leaves barely anything for the evil team to work with. It also seems to overshadow the Magician, they share a very similar role (making it hard for the evil team to coordinate), but the poppygrower just does a much better job at it. This bootlegger rule still significantly disrupts the evil team, but at least leaves them something to work with. It also pairs in a pretty fun way with roles that create extra evil players.

-Professor: The people you bring back to life, continue registering as dead.

One of the biggest problems with Professor, is that it's almost required to be paired with a Shabaloth on the script. This bootlegger rule is meant to allow the Professor to fit on a few more scripts, rather than being used on scripts the Professor is already a part of. Without there being a potential of a Shabaloth revive, the Professor revive is just too powerful. Not only is it the equivalent to preventing a demon kill, it also hard confirms the professor and the person that got revived. By making the people the Professor revived register as dead, the role becomes much more bluffable. The Professor needs to take the word of the person they chose, that they actually got their ability again. People with passive abilities, will have to take the Professor's word for it, that they actually got revived, and everyone else will have to take the word of the professor and their target for it.

-Snake Charmer: The Snake Charmer gets to act before Demon and Minion information.

Without this bootlegger rule, having the Demon Snake Charmed night 1, just isn't fun for the Minions. They're immediately outed and are unlikely to have any action for the entire game. There just isn't much reason not to allow the Snake Charmer to go before evil info, it makes the game more enjoyable for pretty much everyone. Even the former Demon still comes away from the exchange with some interesting info. They basically became a townsfolk with the ability "you start knowing the Demon type". It's by far the most common bootlegger rule I've seen used in all my time playing clocktower.

-Butler: If they break the rule, something bad might happen to a member of their team.

The butler is only 1 of 2 roles that needs to self-regulate the actions they take. The storyteller can't really do anything if the Butler votes for someone they weren't allowed to vote for, because doing something like not counting their vote, would confirm their role. By adding a consequence for breaking the rule, the storyteller can do more than just giving them a slap on the wrist. It also puts the butler more in-line with other game mechanics, where it's up to the player to interact with the mechanic (like madness), or the storyteller is the one in control (like death). And if they have reason to believe they're droisoned, the player actually has the chance to take a risk. With the regular butler ability, even if you're confident you're droisonsed, you're still not allowed to vote, because you're be breaking the rules if you aren't.

-Golem: Change ability to "The first time you nominate, if the nominee is not the Demon, they are executed. The second time you nominate, your team loses."

It's kind of 2 bootlegger rules in 1. The "your team loses" ruling, has similar reasoning as the Butler: instead of relying on the player to self-enforce the restriction rule of their ability, add a consequence for breaking the rule. Since "you can't nominate" is less ambiguous and much easier to remember and adhere to than "you can't vote if person x doesn't vote", a harsher punishment for breaking the rule is arguably warranted. On top of this, the ability has been changed to execute the player the golem nominates instead of killing them, because, quite frankly, the Golem, as an outsider, is a better townsfolk than many townsfolk are. At least when their ability executes their target, it ends the day. Certain minion abilities, like Psychopath and Devil's Advocate, can prevent some evil players from dying, and abilities that end the game on execution have a chance to take effect.

Lunatic: The Demon learns who the Lunatic thinks are the Minions.

While I doubt this is a bootlegger rule I'd run myself, it's easy to see the purpose of the rule. Knowing who the Lunatic thinks are the minions, gives a lot more opportunity for the evil team to keep the Lunatic in the dark. Without this rule, most Lunatics tend to find out they're the Lunatic pretty early on, and at that point, they're not much of an outsider anymore.

-Vizier: If a player can turn evil due to their own ability, they count as evil for the purposes of your ability.

This prevents roles like Cult Leader, Politician or Goon, from intentionally force an evil win while they switch alignment at the end.

-Vigormortis: Doesn't change the outsider count

The Vigormortis' ability isn't all that much stronger than your average Demon ability, and replacing an outsider with a townsfolk character is quite a big penalty. Sure, it gives the evil team a bit of potential outsider claim space, but that rarely makes up for the extra townsfolk and missing outsider. It makes Vigormortis arguably the weakest Demon and as far as I can tell, the main reason it has the minus 1 outsider, is because the script it originates from, is all about figuring out which Demon is in-play, and they still wanted a [-1 outsider] demon, to have a bigger variety in outsider count, but keep Demons as the only form of outsider manipulation. On other scripts (especially solo-demon scripts) the [-1 outsider] is really rough for the evil team. Solo demon scripts are also the only time I've ever seen this bootlegger rule used.

That concludes the character-related bootlegger rules I know of. As a reminder, if you remember some bootlegger rules yourself that haven't been mentioned above, do let me know! I'd love to expand my list!

Posted Nov 29, 2023, 12:16 PM UTC

3635
Jo-Jux•

I really like a lot of these rules. Might implement a few in my games.

I personally don't like that the Huntsman can add the Damsel. It makes the character really bad. Personally I don't think the Huntsman [+the Damsel] should add another outsider, but make sure one outsider is the Damsel.

I like the Butler rule as well, as it turns it something mechanical and makes the character more interesting. You can take a risk, but there are consequences.

15
BobTheBoxOP•

The main reason it can also add a Damsel, is base 0 outsider games. The Huntsman needs there to be a Damsel, and in 0 outsider games, if they couldn't add one, they just wouldn't have an ability

11
Jo-Jux•

Then it shouldn't be in 0 outsider games. If you are a huntsman in a 0 outsider game, you'd know that some other outsider modification is in play, not that you took away 2 useful abilities from town.

14
maths_and_memes•

I've barely ever seen the Huntsman actually add an additional Outsider. Admittedly, they are still comparably weak, but at least they don't weaken the other parts of town.

4
Jo-Jux•

I've seen it happen and that is not a townsfolk, that is basically a worse good Baron.

5
maths_and_memes•

100% agree. It starts good off in a really bad position.

3
BobTheBoxOP•

It definitely doesn't help that the outsider it adds, is arguably the worst outsider for good to have in the game.

3
grandsuperior•

The Snake Charmer rule is run a lot in Clocktower streams. Ive started running it in every SC script except Sects and Violets (since I think it’s worth running it rules as written in its original script).

I also run Amnesiac exactly as you’ve described. Another bootlegger rule I’ve seen with Amnesiac is that it can still make ability guesses even when dead, though obviously the ability wouldn’t work anymore.

9
sturmeh•

Alejo turns a fun solve for everyone, including minions which have nothing to lose (they typically remain alive as they aren't the demon) with loads of chaos into an instant rerack where a player now has the ability "you know the starting demon type".

I'll stick to RAW tyvm.

1†
DracoZGaming•

First thing after snarmed demon outs is minions get instantly executed in my games. Interesting that you have such a different experience.

4
sturmeh•

Killing the minions is generally useless unless one of them is pithag so I don't even tell players who the minions are most of the time. (The first thing they do anyway is waste an execution on the snake charmer.)

Why would you waste two executions killing them otherwise.

If one is ET they're completely harmless...

1
DracoZGaming•

Besides ET all other minions in SnV are quite strong and have active abilities. Even if minions don't get executed... Who would talk to outed evil players? It's usually courtesy to include them in convos but realistically their fun is kinda ruined.

4
Ok_Shame_5382•

These really aren't quality of life improvements, in almost every instance these are major buffs.

7
BobTheBoxOP•

Okay, maybe "quality of life" was the wrong word choice.

I just meant that these rules adjust the characters in a way that makes them more enjoyable or balanced, while trying to keep the core idea of the character in-tact. I may have stretched it with the addition of the Golem bootlegger rule.

6
Ok_Shame_5382•

I think they're overreaches for most of them. I'm on mobile so it's hard for me to cross reference them atn.

Amnesiac shouldn't be allowed to guess when dead. They have no ability. The rule I do like though is "Amnesiac guesses are not affected by the Vortox".

I especially, especially, especially hate the Snake Charmer rule. I would tell players new to the role that they can always select themselves. If they don't want to run the risk of a Night 1 Snake Charmer ping, they select themselves. The entire point of SC is high risk, high reward. This bootleg removes so much of the risk and retains the reward.

2†
BobTheBoxOP•

Night 1 is the least risky night to make a snake charmer pick anyways. All players alive means least likely to pick the Demon.

I've never seen an experienced player pick themselves night 1, because that doesn't result in an interesting game. Don't pick: they learn nothing and nothing interesting happens. Do pick: either they learn valuable information, or get the thrill of playing as a crippled demon.

The problem is, that it's not fun for the minions to immediately start the game outed. This simple bootlegger rule can make a game much more enjoyable for 1-3 players, and all you lose, is part of the risk, in a risk/reward calculation, where almost everyone takes those chances anyways.

4
GlitterSoulz•

I really don't see the SC rule for the SC themselves rather than for the minions. Minions are the players who suffer most in a N1 snake charm. They are outed basically immediately and usually killed pretty fast. It can be really unfun for the players.

4
UprootedGrunt•

I quite like your Professor mod here. Definitely makes the Professor a more multi-script role with benefit and a puzzle.

5
BardtheGM•

The lunatic is an interesting one. I know that the original version of the game had everyone staying in the circle and being able to whisper to neighbours but that obviously being under scrutiny. That lunatic worked well within that concept.

But then the convention of walking away from private conversations took hold and the lunatic basically non-functional IMO. I think it's definitely worth receiving a look at it rules-wise. Personally I'd upgrade it to "the entire evil team knows who you are and who your minions are". Then they can either play along or not.

5
Astephen542•

Steven Medway's said that the Lunatic isn't designed to be fooled for more than a day or two. I'm not sure I'd ever use this bootlegger rule given that.

5
BardtheGM•

Well that's the point of the bootlegger, it changes the rules no?

1
HyBReD•

Professor and Charmer are good. Amni just needs pure guesses, the while dead part is too much.

The rest are just kinda silly.

Huntsman is probably fine, but ultimately where Huntsman will land on a script functionally will work as removing lose condition, an outsider and likely creating a fairly powerful role in the process will be quite strong. I agree that in a bubble Huntsman is pretty bad, but I think in a proper script it fits the theme.

5

I prefer making the Huntsman each night*, they should be choosing candidates but it’s weird they only get one guess when their payoff is so much less than the Minion’s.

4
Astephen542•

The rule I've seen for Huntsman is Each night*, choose a player: the Damsel, if chosen, becomes a not-in-play Townsfolk. If you choose a Minion, you're poisoned.

7

Yeah I can live with that tbh

1
Aptokro•

Do you know that vigormortis also poisons townsfolk neighbor of the minion too? I think it's a fair trade off, but the i still don't think vigor causing 1 less outsider makes much sense because there might not be any outsiders anyways

4
BobTheBoxOP•

I am aware, but each demon is designed to be stronger than the "base demon" with the base demon being: "Each night*, choose a player: they die"

Spending your night on killing a minion, even if they keep their power and poison a neighbor, is already a big trade-off in-and-of itself, because it loses you momentum. That's one less evil player the good team could spend the day on killing them, and that's one less potential player that is guaranteed to have your back in the coming final 3.

So, without the [-1 outsider] the Vigormortis still wouldn't be much more powerful compared to other demons.

1

I'm fine with most of these being used, except professor and golem. Professor change immediately outs a shabaloth at their first resurrection and has a high likelihood of screwing evil over with a final two day they can't really plan around. The golem change completely removes the use of it as a check to certain minions like psychopath and boomdandy.

2
BobTheBoxOP•

As stated under the professor, the purpose of the rule is to allow the professor to be used on non-shabaloth scripts. If there is a shabaloth on the script, using the bootlegger rule is indeed not recommended.

As for the game continuing with seemingly 2 players alive, this will very rarely come as a surprise to the evil team. Usually, the good team doesn't execute on 4 people, so there being a living professor target would have to be public knowledge for the good team to execute at 4, usually. If there are only 3 people that register as alive, and the game continues after an execution, the demon can just kill and end the game anyways.

As far as the Golem goes... Yeah that's the point. The Golem is an outsider, yet for some reason it has an ability that's better for the good team than the majority of the townsfolk abilities. So yeah, the whole point of the bootlegger is to reduce the strength of the golem, and don't allow them to just circumvent several of the abilities that are supposed to help the evil team.

3
Sovhiel•

Another Poppy Grower one: saying Vortox does not affect PG. Otherwise in a Vortox game, PG dying gives false info to the evil team about who their teammates are

2
diamocube•

For Huntsman, I'd do "Choosing a minion drunks them tonight and tommorow. The brackets read: Replace an outsider with a Damsel." This makes Huntsman not able to actively add in a Damsel, and if a Minion wants to bluff it to pull away the guess they have to sacrifice a night and day of their ability.

For Golem, you could just replace the loss with being instantly executed themselves and keep the day death.

1
baru_monkey•

For the SC rule, how about also allowing the Philosopher to go first-first, in case they choose SC?

1
BobTheBoxOP•

Don't they already go first-first? I could have sworn they did, in case they wanna pick Magician or Snake Charmer night 1

1
Davethelion•

Re: lunatic.

People show them fake minions? My group has always run the lunatic as knowing the demons actual minions, that way, when the lunatic tries to strategize, the minions can feed the lie. It’s always made for a super exciting game

1
BobTheBoxOP•

The problem with doing that consistently, is that when the lunatic finally figures it out (which they likely will) they will know for sure that the minions they were shown, are real minions.

1