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Contest of Chumpions Round 2: Worst Non-elite Trait Line

[Discussion]

Welcome to the Contest of Chumpions, where we find the worst of GW2.

In the last round, the "winner" for the worst trait was Thief, with Elementalist making a showing. Here are the top 4 worst traits according to the likes:

  1. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Killer
  2. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deadly_Aim_(trait)
  3. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Conjurer
  4. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cover_of_Shadow

Special bonus crit in a line that already caps your crit? A trait that reduces damage to give an ability many weapons have by default? Getting a meh aura when your allies never do a thing? Messing with your allies' rotations/autoattack to give almost no protection? What were they thinking?

This round we're looking for the worst non-elite trait lines. Post a non-elite trait line and why it is a true chumpion. Top however-many-I-feel-like win!

Round two. Fight!!

Posted Dec 29, 2023, 8:19 PM UTC

2537
ItsTheSolo▶️ 0:00 / 0:05 🔘─────────── 🔊 ──🔘─ ⬇️•

It's so easily Thief Arcobatics line it's not even funny. No other traitline gets completely overshadowed by an E-spec line as acrobatics does.

34
Rathmun•

The one place it shines is underwater. Swindler's Equilibrium + Shadow Assault + Malificient Seven = permanent evasion in underwater boss fights.

13
TulkiSuper Science Cat•

Instant Reflexes used to be a great trait, when it triggered at half health.

But it's ANOTHER one of those traits that for whatever reason they decided to replace with an "on elite skill use" proc. There are so many good traits that they completely ruined with that stupid proc condition.

7
imthatbrian•

Seconded. Daredevil killed this trait line dead, stole its identity, and buried it in a lead box.

It’s one thing for a line to have a dud trait or 2, but thief has an entirely useless trait line!

Anet needs to show thief some love asap. While it is a fun class that is good at what it does, other classes do all the same things but better.

6
enternius•

Acrobatics is actually a very strong trait line in the very specific use case of solo Power Daredevil. It gives almost-comparable DPS as Deadly Arts, but with the added benefits of permanent Swiftness, Regeneration, Vigor, tons of condi cleanse, and some Initiative maintenance.

Seeing as how it's only good on Power Daredevil when solo though, it's definitely on the very low end, I would agree.

6
omlette_du_chomage•

I like it together with daredevil (pain response - guarded initiation - upper hand) works pretty well even in PvP for me

1
the2ndsaint•

This is the only answer. I could maybe, *maybe* see it used instead of Trickery if that weren't a mandatory pick because of the Initiative gain, but as it stands it's basically worthless.

1
enternius•

I think this is going to get a lot less entries because truthfully there just aren't that many bad trait trees. There's usually something worth taking in every slot for a given build.

To me, the frustrating trait lines are the ones that are so good that it feels bad to not take them, like Explosives/Firearms on DPS Engineer. Tools could be a great traitline but you only have room for two options and it's Explosives/Firearms 90% of the time. Trickery on Thief is similar, I firmly believe that +3 Initiative should be baked into the class by default.

10
folstarOP:CandyCorn: •

Of course there will be fewer entires. There are only... 45 trait lines and most of them are good at what they do. The goal is to find the worst. The one who never gets asked to the dance.

5
Dupileini•

As already mentioned, Acrobatics has to be the clear 'winner' here.

That said, I think Tools, Retribution and Valor see only quite niche use cases. Respectable choices for their role, but rarely any good outside it and with little variation. They also, like Marksmanship or Arms, have a bunch of trait choices within them that feel uninteresting or lackluster overall. (personal opinion)

7
folstarOP:CandyCorn: •

Tools

A strong contender. I guess it's potentially useful in PVP, but even then...

2
FunkyBot•

Tools is overshadowed, certainly, but I don’t think it is bad in a similar way as some of the other contenders are. I mean, you get a 10% damage increase, a 15% cdr on toolbelt skills and some free condi cleanses right off the bat. Then you can easily get another 10% damage increase and another free source of damage. Sure, the grandmasters aren’t stellar, but that hardly warrants the entire trait line to be labeled ’bad’…

5
Dupileini•

Yeah. I wouldn't call it 'bad' either, but I'd say aside from Acrobatics, no trait line really is. Its problem is that it is mostly a power damage traitline and as such competes against the superior Firearms and Explosives. Aside from enabling to dodge more often and the respective synergy with Thermic Release Valve, it's just not enough to make the line worth more damage than either of the above.

​

Meanwhile, Inventions and Alchemy are simply better for defensive and utiliy.

Tools was good to have on Engineer before Elite Specs were a thing, but it's the first you drop to slot one of those.

2
folstarOP:CandyCorn: •

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Valor

It's actually kind of hard to pick which Guardian trait line to put because, other than Zeal, the Guardian trait lines look like someone spilled them all into a pile and then hurriedly put the pieces back together. What's the identity of any of these lines other than "guardian stuff"?

6
DaerograenUntag me.•

Valor is pretty solid for a blocking-focused dueling build with the Relic of the Defender.

5
folstarOP:CandyCorn: •

As noted above, this entry is more about how Guardian trait lines seem all jumbled up. None of them are bad per se, but all of them look shuffled together compared to other professions.

For example- Zeal is the symbols trait line, but the best symbol trait is in Honor. Virtues is build more like an elite trait line.

2
FunkyBot•

This is not an answer to your question, but I still want to mention it because i was too late in the old topic: engi’s trait ‘power wrench’ is surprisingly horrendous. 3 second cooldown reduction on elite skills sounds great on paper… until you try and use it in a build, and discover that it is surprisingly limited.

First of all, the trait does not work on toolbelt skills, which are often better than the actual skill themselves. Second, it does not work on mortar kit - period. Do that leaves us with Elixir x, Supply crate and the elite specializations. For the first two, their cooldown is so big that any form of reduction barely matters for a single combat - it is likely over before you get a second use. Not to mention the use of the elixir being… niche.

Then there’s the elite spec options. For Stealth gyro there is anti-synergy, as combat and stealth don’t go along too well. That leaves us with Prime light beam and Overclock signet. These are, I’ll admit, actually decent candidates. Moderate cooldown, solid damage… Great, if it weren’t for the fact that you are already down one trait line, and are now hard pressed to still include the ‘Tools’-line. Oh, and it is opposed by Static discharge, which gives you a steam of damage without real requirements, instead of jumping through hoops for one extra burst.

So, yeah… turns out there isn’t really a scenario in which you actually want this trait…

Back on topic: Necro’s Death magic, Thief’s acrobatics and Shadow arts, Warrior’s Tactics are the first that spring to mind.

3
rumnscurvy•

Power wrench has always been horrendous. It used to improve the Tool Kit skill, which has always been the most useless engie kit out there.

To think that there used to be a time when ANet wanted you to lay down turrets and spend your time whacking them with spanners to keep their health up. As if:

  • The core game content wasn't heavily emphasizing speed and mobility,
  • Even in more protracted encounters against boss enemies, turrets didn't die immediately to most attacks, and certainly to any aoe dot effect

So, yeah, Power Wrench sucks, in that its actual impactfulness given the engie elite skill set is much less than you'd think, but it used to be wayyyyy worse, in that it wanted to enable a play style that was dead on arrival at launch.

All turrets should have worked like scrapper gyros currently do, or like sand shades (untargettable, low cd).

1
Rathmun•

Yeah power wrench + turrets could've been so much better. And the stupid thing is, Anet got it right before with ritualist in GW1. Though, the lack of respawning enemies did also mean that you couldn't just drop a bunch of spirits and let them farm infinitely, so there wasn't any AFK botting.

I think the wrench+turrets could still have been much better if Wrench were implemented better, though they didn't have the tools then they do now.

Something like giving turrets ammo skills with much higher damage than what they have now, but really long count recharge. To clarify, the turret has an ammo skill, the skill on the engi's toolbar is not an ammo skill, though it might show the turret's current ammo for convenience. Then you could have skills on the wrench that restore ammo to turrets when you hit enemies with them, like the siege turtle has now with the driver's slam recharging the gunner's ammo.

Then you'd have a playstyle where the engi drops turrets before getting up close and personal to keep those turrets topped up while recieving fire support.

1
rumnscurvy•

Mmm, while Ritualist was a lot of fun in gw1, pretty much everyone and their mothers playing spirit spam ritualist had to use Summon Spirits in order to keep them relevant. It worked well though, thanks to that.

I like your idea of turret ammo though. Having them have a a lot of effect on a finite supply of resource that you have to refill would lead them to be very impactful. The Tool kit could have a skill that shoots ammo at nearby turrets like the Med kit does with healing. It leans into the fact that players use skills in rotations.

1
Rathmun•

pretty much everyone and their mothers playing spirit spam ritualist had to use Summon Spirits in order to keep them relevant. It worked well though, thanks to that.

True, maybe make wrench 5 Summon Turrets?

1
enjoynessenjoyer•

From a PvE perspective; Retribution on revenant. It has absolutely no use. At all.

3
folstarOP:CandyCorn: •

Yeah, I when Vindicator was new I tried to come up with some way to use Retribution for the endurance. Nothing really gelled.

2
folstarOP:CandyCorn: •

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death_Magic

It's the minions and... carapace trait line, two completely abandoned ideas forgotten to time

2
FrenchSpence•

Have to disagree, but then again, I'm abusing it on harbinger soooooo.....

3
Suojelusperkele•

I really wish anet could shed some love for base minions/companions.

Mechanist feels great. It's ironic that the og beast class (ranger) doesn't have a spec that'd be all about companion dealing damage.

Could be interesting to go a bit WoW way where the elite spec could have fully/a bit more grown versions of the more.. exotic pets.

Smokescale, the bristleback, iboga. Maybe some brand new pets. Giant spider?

Or kind of funky weaver mix where you'd always have two pets out and could cycle between four? Two pet skills would merge into one weaver style.

That kind of thing could be really cool.

2
therealskull•

Excuse yourself, Carapace is godly in WvW. You can facetank five people at once with the right setup.

1
AssicMight and glory!•

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Rebuke

1
Sethnar:Human::Scourge: •

Mystic Rebuke is incredibly good on Celestial Firebrand in WvW group fights.

Fb has enough group aegis to trigger the trait frequently, it's got enough power to make the hit from the trait do a good bit of damage, the extra hits on enemies help cycle through F1 passive, it doesn't matter that it's on a damage traitline cos that's half the point of taking cele FB.

Not that the trait is therefore top tier in general by ant means, but there are a number of traits in the game that never really get used in any game mode, and the worst single trait has to be among those.

3
Thenewguy601•

Wasn't there a point in the firebrand live test where mystic rebuke was causing "enemy damage tick rate" x5 hits for the courage duration?

Could have swore they they did something to the trigger so it wasn't " you can't die and if the zerg AOEs you, you kill everyone close enough".

2
folstarOP:CandyCorn: •

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tactics

This one might actually be worthwhile once Warrior has a staff... maybe? For now it's built around the unique buff Soldier's Focus which is so forgettable that ANET forgot to remove it when they went through and removed unique buffs.

1
saelwen•

Gonna have to disagree.

For one, Soldier's Focus isn't a unique buff that Anet targeted because its not a flat stat boost like Banners or Spotter. Its the same as Berserk's "Heat the Soul" that gives boons on burst.

It's just bad because it doesn't sync up with burst so its essentially random unless you hold your burst for it, which you would never do.

Second, Tactics is still a better DPS trait like than Arms for power damage with "Leg Specialist" giving a flat 10% damage for free and Empowered giving up to 9% damage increase.

Also Arms has the trait Dual Weilding. Its a 20% attack speed buff (so weaker than quickness) that is only active when you have a Sword, Axe, Dagger, or Mace equipped in the offhand and is your active weapon set.

3
Training-Accident-36•

https://snowcrows.com/builds/warrior/bladesworn/power-bladesworn ???

3
folstarOP:CandyCorn: •

See edit notes- I was copying someone else's entry that hid in a list. I know between jack and shit about warriors.

1
Esperational:Asura::Chronomancer: •

It’s going to be very worth it for quick heal berserker so I think that one had a purpose made for it.

1
Sansania:Human::Guardian: •

We all just gonna ignore Sand savant in the scourge elite tree and how it penalises you in 2/3 game modes.. and hasn’t been touched in over 3 years….

1
doro0123•

pve only folks are so foolish

-14
Training-Accident-36•

Nah, they just enjoy co-op more than fighting each other.

1