Teach it Tuesday (Thursday): Dark Circles & Under Eye Wrinkles

Samesies for me, but more the latter plus hereditary circles. total bummer.

Using a light reflecting concealer can help out to some degree. Milani and Boots make a YSL TE/By Terry dupe. I tried the maybelline one (or maybe it was loreal) and it sucked hard.

Thanks for the heads up. I'll fix it in an hour!

EDIT fixed.

Yellow is generally to neutralize redness as far as I know.

I'd fall under that arab category, but my circles have changed over the years from that blueish color to a reddish/brown. Bizarre, eh?

The salmon color always worked best for me regardless of the color under the eyes. I personally prefer Benefit erase paste over the Bobbi brown corector. The BB is way too sticky/goopy. I've also heard Graftobian's color corrector palette is awesome.

Likely. Sorry I completely forgot to mention environmental factors . Will edit that right up once I get to a computer at work. Thanks for bringing that up!!!!!

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Might be helpful to try out both. A vitamin C serum is great for all skin types anyhow, can't say no to antiox protection!

I close my eyes, drop some in my hand, and slather all over the face. Be careful when you re-open your eyes, as it stings VERY bad to get the stuff in the eye.

Avene makes OTC retinaldehyde products--both for the full face and eye specific. The only differences I think are the textures and the quantity of the retinaldehyde. Alternatively , you can ask your doc for something like Adapalene (Differin is the brand name) this is the lowest strength RX retinoid, so it'll be stronger, and actually cheaper in the long run assuming your insurance (if you have it) will cover it. If you have any stretch marks, or hyperpigmentation, or fine lines, it'll help out with that too over time.

Can you post the names and ingredients if possible of the ones you are talking about?

They're hard little white balls caused by retention of keratin/sebaceous material.

I personally found I got these when I used to dabble with crap formulated eye creams.

I had a couple larger ones removed by a derm who works in a med spa near my place. We have a good relationship so he did it for free. It took under 2 minutes to chop right out.

The smaller ones can potentially be broken down over time with a chemical exfoliator or retinoids would help as well, since they increase skin cell turnover.

Also, eliminating the cause of the milia will prevent them from getting larger/multiplying.

Avene is the only one I can think of that's really solid and a retinaldeyhyde, and has some eye specific formulas--one is a gel, which is more lightweight than some of the others they have. But that's going to be more expensive than RoC.

Hmm..Neutrogena Healthy Skin Night cream is retinol. I think that brand should be less expensive than RoC. Getting the face cream would be fine, you get more product.

If your GP can give you a script for something like Adapalene, that might end up being cheaper in the long run.

Ah right. ROC uses a less potent derivative.

What's the link? I see they have a couple peptide creams, one with glycolic acid, but I think I'm either skimming over any retinoids?

I don't know much about peptides, I just opened up this article and am quickly scanning through it before I do real work, lol.

Peptides have strict criteria in order for them to be properly absorbed, criteria listed from the article include:

1. Molecular weight less than 500 Da;
2. Moderate log of partition coefficient octanol/water between 1 and 3;
3. Melting point less than 200°C;
4. Reasonable aqueous solubility (>1 mg mL−1);
5. No or few polar centres.

The article goes on a bit more about the stratum corneum being a pretty serious barrier ( as for most topicals):

" As peptides and proteins contain many amide bonds, (as hydrogen bond donor and acceptor groups), and because of their large molecular size, they have low diffusivity in skin. Furthermore, as they often charged at physiological pH, they are intrinsically hydrophilic. Hence, the lipophilic stratum corneum is a significant barrier to penetration [7]."

It continues to talk about how penetration can be helped by using a "chemical penetration enhancer"---some actives, like ceramides, can't actually penetrate the skin ( although they are a component of the lipid bilayer), but if they're encapsulated in liposomes, it can help penetration.

This article mentioned liposomal encapsulation and use of fatty acid derivatives. " For example, the palmitoyl derivative of the polypeptide interferon α penetrates across human skin five- to six-fold greater than the simple peptide [19] and also, facial skin improvement has been reported after topical pal-KTTKS (palmitoyl pentapeptide-4) therapy [20]"

The article also mentioned that there really is scare data about the permeability of peptides in general and the systematic review they published is pretty solid. There are a couple large charts depicting efficacy data and TL;DR versions of multiple studies.

The article also mentions, " All aforementioned peptides as examples can suggest that these agents may be effective. Note that in the only published systematic review [24] on interventions for ageing skin; no peptide therapy was included. Here, published peptides and proteins categorized in four categories, their characteristics, in vitro studies and in vivo efficacy data are presented." So that's something to keep in mind.

You can use your regular sunscreen around the eye area, but I would suggest getting an all physical sunscreen so nothing stings. Chemical sunscreens tend to be the stinging culprit. My eyes are ridiculously sensitive as well.

You can also use an SPF lip balm, assuming there's no fragrance/cooling effects in it.

Unrefined shea butter, or oils, or even a bit of vaseline might work better under your eyes as a regular moisturizer.

I use a foundation, too! There's no real rules as far as makeup application goes. If it works, keep doing it!

It could be hereditary puffiness if you're still on the younger side. One explanation is your body isn't draining lymphatic fluid quite right, so you end up with puffiness. Do you find it decreases as the day goes on?

I'll do some digging and do a followup post, because the scope of my knowledge is limited. I just know that it's either hereditary and not draining right, or it can happen as you age, and adipose migrates.

Have you ever talked to a dermatologist or even your eye doc?

If the allergist said "allergy shiners" I'd probably go for what the allergist said. Only anecdotal experience, but I definitely see my red/brown dark circles get worse when my eye allergies are worse.

The "that's just how some of us are" basically means: genetics. It seems common for particularly ethnicities to have hyperpigmented areas--like those with darker skin types.

The fair skinned folk tend to have the thin/see through skin issue.

A retinoid could help both of those issues.

I'm saying retinoids could help if you have the kind of dark circles that are unrelated to the structure of your orbital bone. For example, no topical product will help if your dark circles are due to a shadow being cast from an orbital trough, or decreased suborbital volume. But for a hyperpigmented area or thin skin, retinoids could do a bit over time.

Avene makes good retinoid eye products. They have a gel formulation and 2 creams.

But if you can get a RX for a low strength retinoid, that could end up being the cheaper option in the long run.