Interview Employer Etiquette

So far I'm fairly new as far as CS interviews go. I've had two so far. The first one where, the potential employer never got back to me or even answered my emails after the phone screen. The second where, I actually got past the phone screen, and took a take-home engineering test. It's been a week since I have taken the engineering test and haven't had a response to an email (which I sent 5 days ago) asking about the status of my application.

Is this normal? Why is it normal?

It feels like these employers don't respect me at all.

Posted Jun 3, 2013, 7:32 PM UTC

1632
[deleted]•

Is this normal?

Yes.

Why is it normal?

Because they are douchebags who are enjoying the benefits of an employers' market that allows them to be douchebags.

It feels like these employers don't respect me at all.

They don't. Why would they?

21
kevando•

This is a relatively accurate answer, and the door swings both ways.

4
cokeisahelluvadrug•

It feels like these employers don't respect me at all.

They don't. Why would they?

This is in a nutshell why people get educated in the first place: so that they can enter the workforce and get a job where people actually respect them. So, the lesson is: if you're feeling disrespected, either move on to something else or become good enough at what you do that people start paying attention. Don't like being a cog? Then stop complaining and find a way to differentiate yourself.

1
plush_bunny•

It wouldn't say it's very common, but it's not particularly uncommon either. Just keep applying to other companies in the meantime. Their loss.

11
kevando•

I have some really good advice, and since you posted an honest answer, I'll share it. It won't work well if lots of people learn this method, but it worked wonders for me.

Create a fake position and post a craigslist ad for that job and you'll get to see 1) the quantity of response, what is the recruiter dealing with 2) the quality, this is literally your competition 3) you'll read through the emails and resumes with the mindset of a recruiter, this will have a profound impact on how you re-write your resume and cover letters and (most importantly) your email subjects.

After this exercise, you'll realize it's totally understandable why they don't respond. Finding an awesome employee is hard as shit and their boss is probably yelling at them to find someone by next week, so responding to 50 people is not on the top of their list of to-dos.

5
RedShftOP•

That's an interesting idea. I think it could be worthwhile to try.

1
pinkal_peaches•

This is extremely manipulative and sort of terrible, but I love the idea and may have to try this. It's fair game to try to check on the local market and it is not unheard of for employees to post a job and then change their minds or just not hire anyone.

1
kevando•

It's really the by product of all this that you're getting after. Get in the mindset of the recruiter so you can better present yourself in a manner that gets their attention.

1
sinjihn•

I've done the reverse of this - create several bogus resumes on job boards and check out the quality of recruiters I have to deal with.

1
kevando•

The big part of my exercise is to help you switch perspective. Viewing the process (and yourself) from a someone else's point of view is very important. You're method just gives you more people for you to judge from your own perspective and that says a lot about you.

1
sinjihn•

My method weeds out serious, professional recruiters from copy/paste spam kings.

I have no problem with the notion of judging hr/recruiters - the overall interview process (unfortunately) includes them too. I've cut several interviews short due to the actions of questionable recruiters, and so have most people I know.

1
mdf356Software Engineer•

I did an in-person interview with Amazon and they never got back to me to tell me thanks-but-no-thanks. Guess I know who I never want to work for...

It doesn't make sense to me since if I'm deciding between multiple offers, the company that got back to me fastest and was nicest has a real advantege over their competitors.

4
BayAreaRecruiterRecruiter•

Keep applying. Until your butt is in the chair, you don't have a job. Check your junk mail (maybe an email got caught) and many companies have systems that will show you the status of the application (Jobvite).

From an employer's perspective, some companies don't have the decency to write a rejection email to those they have spoken with - others do. For me, I write rejection emails to those I've screened (but haven't interviewed with the hiring manager) and do a verbal rejection for those that have interviewed with the hiring manager. Those that apply but I don't talk to do not get a message - they can log into our system and see their status. I don't have the time to write back to every person who applies.

Just keep applying. You never know what the reason may be (some one may be on vacation, out sick, the role may have been closed, etc), so keep applying.

3
RedShftOP•

Concerning those who apply and you don't talk to, would it be possible to use a system that automatically sends an email to those applicants who don't even get to the phone screen?

1
BayAreaRecruiterRecruiter•

Yes, our system is able to do that, but it also requires a template to be set (by an admin) and it also takes time. The other issue is that by sending a rejection email, the candidate then has the ability to contact me directly and I do not have time for individual coaching.

2
RedShftOP•

I see, I'm guessing the later, is an important part to why those types of emails never get sent out. That makes sense.

1
BayAreaRecruiterRecruiter•

I've gotten hit up for all sorts of advice. I've also had people email weeks/months later asking why since they are still unemployed. Also, when someone's email gets hacked, I'll get spammed.

1
ostrakonSoftware Engineer•

It feels like these employers don't respect me at all.

Let me make something perfectly clear. In software development there is not a single employer that respects you as a person. We are a results-oriented industry and the only thing an employer respects is how they can leverage your skills to turn a profit. Individual managers and co-workers may very well respect you as a person, but companies as a whole do not and can not give a shit about anything but your ability to do the job.

A lot of places have great salary growth, awesome benefits, lax work schedules, and a healthy amount of time off. Don't mistake these for respecting you. They don't give a shit about RedShft. They only care about RedShft's ability to design and implement software more efficiently than it would cost to train your replacement. Benefits just mean that you work for an employer who respects your abilities enough to try and retain you as long as possible.

It's perfectly normal to not get contacted back. They found someone better for the job and have no further use for you. Try again somewhere else and continue improving. Just remember that respect is not inherent - it's earned.

(Conversely, 5 days isn't that long. It's perfectly possible that they're still interviewing candidates).

3
RedShftOP•

I would think even if they don't give a shit about me, they should still give a shit about the stuff I can say concerning their unprofessional handling of candidates. I do have friends, who may or may not be more skilled engineers than I am. :p

1
PacNWrecruiterRecruiter•

If a company spent time telling every single person "no" that submitted their resume to a job nobody would ever get hired. Just the sheer volume of resumes that any job posting gets is astounding.
It's nothing personal as they don't even know who you are. It's not necessarily that they don't give a shit about you, it's that who ever is handling your application is getting paid to find someone for that position. Every minute they spend talking with someone who isn't getting the job is a minute they are spending not filling the role. I'm not saying that this is a good thing or that it's fair or justified, it's just the nature of the beast.

6
sinjihn•

Sheer volume? So much for a tech shortage!

0
PacNWrecruiterRecruiter•

There's a tech shortage of qualified candidates, there is no shortage of people thinking they are developers.

1
Billz2meSoftware Engineer•

Companies that don't respect your time enough to tell you the bad news aren't worth your time anyways. No loss.

2
captainAwesomePants•

The first company is unprofessional. It's not uncommon, and often it's because they're busy and forgot about you, but it's still unprofessional.

The second one may be more an engineer's fault. Somebody has to submit feedback on your test before they have an answer for you, and if the engineer has deprioritized you (sorry, this has been me once or twice), the HR person doesn't have an answer for you yet. Of course, they should at least communicate that to you if you ask. Again, not responding is unprofessional.

2
PacNWrecruiterRecruiter•

Unfortunately it is all too common. One of the reasons, depending on company size, could just be the amount of applications they receive.

It's always frustrating when you've done some portion of your interview and still don't hear back. I find that truly unacceptable.

I actually work for an agency but a lot of times when we submit someone to one of our clients or even if they've interviewed we'll never hear back from them. It's a very weird industry standard that needs to change.

1
K1R1S•

I had one company get back to me after a month, and another got back to me in less than 24 hours telling me I got the job.

It just depends on the company and how well the interview went. If they really want you - you'll know it. If it takes them longer than 2 weeks to get back to you I'd move on.

1
lightcloud5•

I interviewed with a company once (during senior year fall semester of college); they responded back in January (3 months later) saying they wish to continue the process. By then I had already concluded my job search.

Another company I interviewed at said they were impressed with the interview, but that they had already extended an offer to someone else, and they don't have two openings at the moment. They are unable to make a decision until the first candidate responds in some way (accept or decline). In this case, the company was straightforward and open in their communications, which I think is commendable.

1
cokeisahelluvadrug•

The first one where, the potential employer never got back to me or even answered my emails after the phone screen.

Generally when they don't email you it means you didn't get the job. Rule of thumb: send a thank-you email to whoever you interviewed with, a followup email to whoever set up the interview, and let it go. They'll contact you if they liked what they saw.

The second where, I actually got past the phone screen, and took a take-home engineering test. It's been a week since I have taken the engineering test and haven't had a response to an email (which I sent 5 days ago) asking about the status of my application.

This could mean two things, and it depends on the company.

  • First, as before, usually if they ignore your emails it means they are not pursuing you any further. HR people are very busy and get dozens of emails and phone calls a day from potential employees. They are very good at the cold shoulder. Usually younger companies will have a quicker turnaround than more established companies. It took 4 weeks for Northrup Grumman to get back to me, for example, and it is not unusual for younger companies like Hulu, Yelp, etc. to get back to you the same day of the interview. It also depends on the industry -- I just received a followup email from a videogame company for a position that I applied to back in January. No surprise that I didn't get the job. Still, it's insulting that I wasn't told back in January.

  • The second option is that they are still interviewing candidates, and they haven't responded simply because they can't tell you anything concrete yet. This is more likely if the internship is farther out and if the company is more bureaucratic. Hope for this option, but don't be surprised if it ends up being the first.

It's very natural to feel like a piece of meat in the interview process, especially when you're in the care of a less-than-welcoming HR person. It's very hard when applying to internships to have a strong idea of where you stand in relation to your peers. Remember to stay confident, and keep reminding yourself how competitive you are for the job, how capable you are, etc. When you get the offer you will see the attitude of the company change. Expect that, plan for it, and win it

1
RedShftOP•

Thank you for the response. I will keep my head up, continue applying and just continue enjoying programming regardless if I have a job or not.

2
cokeisahelluvadrug•

That's the key, I think. It's very easy to wrap yourself in the social rejection component of interviews. Be above it

1