Source
r/Planetside•
Painwalker

Alert Bounty: A way to discourage 4th factioning

Instead of a flat value given to everyone for taking up space, give players a time-delayed bounty of xp they earn while playing, up to the maximum amount, at the percent that empire won. You earn extra XP for doing stuff, but you get it at the end of the alert, and there's a maximum cap.

For example, if you earn 1000xp as a TR, you'd get a bounty of 1000xp put away for you. At the end of the alert, since the TR have 50% of the thing to take, you get the bounty of 500xp.

Idlers will get nothing no matter what, participants will be rewarded for everything.

People will still stack the winning empire, but no more free rides to people who didn't earn it by playing. I don't think that's going to be popular though, but it is more fair to those on the losing side who get abandoned and overrun until the winning side dominates.

People who flip lose all their built up bounty xp and have to start over. People who stick it out might actually get a decent amount.

What do you think? Comments? Something I missed? Something you like?

Posted Jul 22, 2013, 5:59 AM UTC

3058
PainwalkerOPAzure Twilight - Emerald (Mattherson)•

Basically it should feel like a delayed double xp weekend, which people seem to love, but based on your empire's success like normal.

Rates of bounty could be more than double for the first 5k of xp to prevent people who logged in at a reasonable time from getting next to nothing.

Lots of room for tweaking, but the point is to reward participation by scaling xp based on things you've actually done.

15
BlackBulletIV[SHOK] Briggs•

What if I log off entirely before the alert ends? I don't generally like to play for three hours straight (as in, one hour before, two hours for the alert), even if I have enough free time to do so.

EDIT: Or is this on top of the the usual XP boost gained when playing on the alert's continent? (Wait, is that still present?)

5
wourThe Realm•

The +20%? Yeah that's still there

6
PainwalkerOPAzure Twilight - Emerald (Mattherson)•

Absolutely. Just like normal.

2
BlackBulletIV[SHOK] Briggs•

Well if this is just a bonus on top of the 20%, and it preserves when I log off for a bit (see Steven's comment) then it sounds like a good idea.

1
PainwalkerOPAzure Twilight - Emerald (Mattherson)•

This would be a replacement to the current alert system, which gives a flat reward to all current online players no matter what their contribution was.

Basically, it means that if an empire is winning and it's close to the end, people just log off and join the winning side for the full reward, rather than fighting to the bitter end. It tends to kill fights since one side ends up empty and the other over saturated, and having nobody to fight is incredibly boring.

This would encourage people to at least stick it out for as long as they can, because if they do switch, they have to build up their bonus xp all over again. It makes it less profitable to switch, since currently it makes the most sense to leave if your empire is going to lose it all and you end up with nothing anyways.

1
[deleted]•

Well, they could make the accumulated "bounty" persist through logging out (as long as you were logged back into the same character when the alert finished), in the same way as vehicle timers. That way if you played the first 30 minutes of the alert, left and got lunch/dinner for 45, and came back for the last 45, you'd still probably get full alert XP, you'd just have to make sure you were logged in when it finished.

1
TheRaymac[OO] Recursion•

I really don't see why this isn't the way it is already. Is Ps1, you received points based on your contribution level...though I think that was just for kills, but PS2 has much better metrics.

5
AdjutantStormy•

Fourth factioning is not limited to AFKing in the spawn.

There's no significant, in-game way to totally destroy the sundy-sabotaging TK-heavy sacrificial fourthies.

4
vonBoomslangNova Nova Jaeger•

There's no significant, in-game way to totally destroy the sundy-sabotaging TK-heavy sacrificial fourthies.

Actually, there is, by limiting friendly fire from the worst offenders. If they have to be online for X minutes and contribute Y effort before they are able to teamkill a sundy (and let's face it, nothing else matters in the strategy level), that would remove a significant percentage of that.

2
PainwalkerOPAzure Twilight - Emerald (Mattherson)•

No, but I would like to see a reduction in the rewards for flipping to the winning side and abandoning your allies, making sticking it out more lucrative than leaving.

0
rocqua•

Great idea, you could potentially add 2 things:

  • a fixed bountyxp/s tick; so people helping without getting a lot of XP (supressing fire, distracting enemys etc. still get a bonus)
  • a fixed bonus you get any way; so people who are late to the party still have incentive to win.
3
PainwalkerOPAzure Twilight - Emerald (Mattherson)•

Hmm I thought about adding a tick for time, but then it rewards doing nothing.

That's why I think that it would be best to have a bigger multiplier for the first 5-10k and then normal after that. Those who are there the whole time will get the whole 20k amount for fighting, but those late to the party should be able to get a good chunk before the end is over.

1
rocqua•

sounds reasonable. :D

2
MiniappolisBriggs-SWOC-Infinity155•

Hmm, you have a good idea but why not make it that you earn more XP the longer you fight as your current faction. So say the Alert XP Cap is 10000. If you fight the whole time as your current faction, you get all of that (provided you win). If you see the other faction is going to win easily and you log in as them, you get next to nothing.

This idea needs a lot of work but I think it's a start. Anything to add about obvious problems?

Good/Bad/Ugly?

2
Brimshae[TEST]#2014FLOORISLAVACHAMPIONS•

That's actually an interesting idea.

I'd say make a timer on each player's account. Run that timer while they are in a faction.

If a player has, say, 1:45:00 of time on their TR character, then switches to NC the last 15 minutes of the alert to cash in on the sweet, sweet win XP from an NC victory, they should get 1/7th (15/105) the victory XP.

Or you could do some other funkiness with it, such as if you have more time as your off-faction in that particular alert, then switch to your primary, you don't get anything.

This allows people with multiple characters per server* to cycle through our characters (39 certs a day is pretty nice), and still participate.

*Yes, some of us with two characters on one server DO play fair. You also have to keep in mind some people were server merged. Can't very well punish them twice for things beyond their control, can you?

1
MiniappolisBriggs-SWOC-Infinity155•

Ah, ideas! I should make a post of this..

2
MiniappolisBriggs-SWOC-Infinity155•

Ok, could you post this comment here? http://en.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/1iu6ca/to_discourage_4th_factioners_why_not_make_it_that/

1
PainwalkerOPAzure Twilight - Emerald (Mattherson)•

This is interesting, but the easier it is to explain to players, the better. I wouldn't want it to be too complicated by making you get more the longer you play.

I think it should be more based on a set "min" where you get extra bounty up to that amount, but then it goes back to normal bounty.

So if the cap is 20k, and the min bounty is 5k, if you earn 1000xp, you normally earn 1000 bounty xp, but since you're below the min (1000 out of 5000), it becomes 1500.

Just a way to keep from screwing the people who just log in but kick major ass, and it isn't based off of anything they really have to track like time. Nearly everyone who cares about XP keeps some kind of eye on it, since it shows up center screen when you earn it.

It would also be easier for the server too, since it wouldn't have to bother tracking everyone's individual multiplier over time. It would just do the check against the min when it adjusts their bounty xp.

1
coalsong•

How would this work if you play actively for, say, the first hour of an alert but then have to log off? Would you still be rewarded equally well as someone who played for the last hour?

2
PainwalkerOPAzure Twilight - Emerald (Mattherson)•

As far as I know, when I log off during an alert, I don't get the xp unless I'm there at the end. This shouldn't be much different in that sense.

What I do get is the extra xp earned while fighting on the alert continent. I think it's +20%? You would just earn that like normal.

1
RandmBlokeMattherson•

It would be nice if SOE would just track the time during alerts. If an alert lasts 60min, and i am online (and on correct cont when applicable) for 6min, then i should get 10% of the xp for said alert. If the alert hands out 5000xp, then i would get awarded 500 only. This way it doesnt matter if you are on for 3 seconds or the whole hour, if you partake or just observe, you get appropriate xp and it does not discriminate. It would eliminate 4th faction as those folks would get minimal xp for doing so. If you feel like staying logged in at the WG the entire 1hr, your call, you have to sit at your comp staying connected to do so. Sure you get the full 5k for being on the full time, but you would get so much more for actively fighting. Again, your call, but it would at least be fair.

Just my 2 bits.

2
PainwalkerOPAzure Twilight - Emerald (Mattherson)•

Sure, but I don't trust the server clock. More than a few times it completely desynchronizes with the user's clock on bigger scales (anyone who has had an alert end way before a base capture happened despite enough time knows what I mean).

Since they already have a system to track extra xp like with double xp, I figured this would be a good solution to base experience off of instead of time.

Besides, idlers still end up getting something if they're clever enough. If you base the xp on things they do, then unless whatever they're doing is helpful to the empire, it won't be worth anything.

1
[deleted]•

EDIT: The only way a 'fix' will work, under almost any aspect, is not to allow free accounts.

Anything you do can be circumvented with an additional free account.

2
PainwalkerOPAzure Twilight - Emerald (Mattherson)•

Right. This isn't about preventing people from switching. It's always going to happen. This is about making the reward they get based off of how much they're actually playing instead of handing them a flat reward.

If you want a nice bounty, you start on the empire you think is going to win. If you start to lose, you can log out and start over on the other one, but you might end up losing all the xp you got.

It would really depend on the circumstances, but what it wouldn't mean is that you get a big chunk of xp for free for being online in an empire for the last two minutes of the fight.

It's about trying to make sticking it out more profitable. It would be unreasonable to lock people out and yeah, I agree, it would be impossible to try as long as they have free accounts.

2
[deleted]•

Good point. The longer in the alert the more reward.

2
Nekryyd•

I don't know if this will be considered a dumb question, but...

...How much of a pain in the ass would it be to bar switching factions only during an alert?

2
PainwalkerOPAzure Twilight - Emerald (Mattherson)•

It would probably be trivial, but many people would feel ripped off if they wanted to start playing with their friends or outfit in an empire, and then suddenly an alert starts, locking them out.

EDIT: Used the wrong word

2
Nekryyd•

Yeah, I could see that being a problem... Damn.

1
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
VinLAURiAEmerald•

Don't alerts give you a fifteen-minute "ALERT INCOMING!" warning beforehand, though?

1
PainwalkerOPAzure Twilight - Emerald (Mattherson)•

Yeah, but it would still suck to have the alert start and then your friends get on afterwards.

The fact is that this restriction would only harass people who follow the rules. People would just make another account to get around it, and it's kind of an excessive step to take just to switch characters around for the average gamer.

The addition would probably be very trivial, but then, it would inconvenience more people and solve nothing.

1
omfgforealzWaterson•

The people waiting in the warpgate taking in space aren't there because they just arrived, they're waiting at wg because they don't plan on staying. The issue is not late arrivals, it's early departures.

*reduce the flat exp reward for all factions

*eliminate the winner's exp reward

*introduce a massive exp bonus increase (+200% max, say 2 or 3 times territory percent) that applies for one hour starting from the end of the alert to any experience players earn.

1
vonBoomslangNova Nova Jaeger•

The problem isn't "alert is ending, I'll hop onto my alt for 5 minutes to get more certs on it"

The problem is "oop, an alert is starting, I'm gonna stop playing this side and switch to the one that always wins" and "the other side is winning, I'll switch to them"

1
PainwalkerOPAzure Twilight - Emerald (Mattherson)•

Can't fix everything, but it is pretty lame when people start hopping over once they start to lose, or getting extra xp for logging in and doing nothing to help their empire.

I would hope this would result in more active play rather than just giving flat rewards no matter what.

For all we know if we did it like this we could up the cap more since all the xp people would earn would be earned, much like a double xp weekend.

1
shadyhorse•

We just need to have 15 minute timer on same-server faction switching.

1
Neilas[NXPG] Nox Praetoria - Connery•

Or you could have a 5 minute window for being on a character (i.e. login to get daily certs) and if you play for more than that on a certain character you cant log into any others for say, 6-12 hours. That would crush 4th faction in a heart beat.

0
RandmBlokeMattherson•

The "window" idea can not work because it penalizes players from honestly just logging in for a few moments to legitimately grab their daily certs, then logging out.

1
Neilas[NXPG] Nox Praetoria - Connery•

It wouldn't be a penalty if you're just logging in for a minute to get your certs and get out. Besides, if anyone is truly determined to be 4th faction scum, they can just make a new account and play on that. I mean it is a f2p game.

0
PainwalkerOPAzure Twilight - Emerald (Mattherson)•

Yeah, but it certainly kills choice. It means that if you think you want to play a certain empire today with friends, unless you want to play on that empire the entire day your best bet is to never really log on, which is kind of a crappy thing to do to people.

1
Neilas[NXPG] Nox Praetoria - Connery•

Its a crappy thing to switch empires during an alert and flood a marginally winning side to a dominating victory. Or any other time for that matter.

2
PainwalkerOPAzure Twilight - Emerald (Mattherson)•

Sure, but if you do that under the bounty system you toss away all your xp for it.

You'd be free to do it, but unless you just like being on the winning side for no reason, it wouldn't be very smart if you've built up a big bounty since it would reset once you logged out.

1
Neilas[NXPG] Nox Praetoria - Connery•

I don't think 'Bounty' is the right word for this When I think of that word, all I see is a high threat target. And yes I know the definition of bounty is described as A reward, inducement, or payment, especially one given by a government for acts deemed beneficial to the state, such as killing predatory animals, growing certain crops, starting certain industries, or enlisting for military service.

Maybe participation credit? Empire Loyalty reward? Although giving people incentive to keep playing a certain faction based off of participation might help.

1
AdjutantStormy•

The final solution to the Fourth Faction problem is to require one faction per account. You MUST SUBMIT 100% OF YOUR EFFORT TOWARDS YOUR FACTION END OF STORY.

Yeah, people will make redundant accounts, but it's a hurdle.

-2
thesmiliesSmiliesTR•

A bunch of the NUC pilots got on Waterson VS yesterday afternoon to shake the dust off of our scythes, it was a blast.

Limiting players to one faction due to a bad alert system (or d-bag sundy TKing players) does more damage than good. Plenty of players have buddies on other factions or like the challenge of fighting with different weapons.

6
Mr_Mchale•

Actually making it per server would be enough.

2
Brimshae[TEST]#2014FLOORISLAVACHAMPIONS•

per server

1> How do you deal with server merges that have happened and will probably happen in the future?

2> How do you handle players that already have two characters on one server now? Keep in mind some people only get a decent connection on one or two servers, so shuffling one of their characters off to live in lag-central is not going to be fun for them.

2
PainwalkerOPAzure Twilight - Emerald (Mattherson)•

I have two empires for Connery due to the merge. I would rather not lose all the progress I've made on that server or the old server by being forced to remove one of them, especially considering the merge wasn't really my fault and I had no idea when I made the characters what was going to happen in the future.

5
Zaev•

I think it should work like this: For every normalized point (point before any boosts) you earn on a single faction on a single server, you're locked to that faction on that server for 1 second. Kill one person? You're locked to that faction for 1:40. Maybe there should be a maximum lockout of an hour or so, to prevent it from stacking too high, but have any additional points gained once capped reset the one hour timer.

1
Cerus[PG] Connery•

The problem is that locking people out doesn't work completely, you'll only deter some people and just end up moving the problem to second accounts. Incentives are pretty much the only way to go.

1
NerfDragonhawksBLNG•

It'll be enough to lock out most of the casuals which make up the bulk of the population (and therefore the content).

1
Cerus[PG] Connery•

I wonder if they'll ever release numbers on single-account faction switching, you know they're collecting them. Seems like it would dispel a lot of this speculation.

1
Bobthemathcow[IHoP] DrProShot (Connery)•

What would a separate account gain? I only have one character, so I have no experience with this, but as I gather people switch factions for more certs in their account, no? Switching to a different account gets you nowhere.

1
Brimshae[TEST]#2014FLOORISLAVACHAMPIONS•

one faction / account

Why should I not be allowed to play NC on Connery? TEST is primarily VS/Mattherson, but we like to do NC Connery from time to time.

Why would you restrict players from one-third of the game? Maybe I want to play with Strikers from time to time or camera-guided missiles.

We also have a TR faction, but you're not authorized to know any details about it.

Edit: camera0guided -> camera-guided I fat-finger on my laptop a bit.

1
6SungodsEngineer•

Could tell which details i should not know about?

1
Brimshae[TEST]#2014FLOORISLAVACHAMPIONS•

You're not cleared for that.

1
PainwalkerOPAzure Twilight - Emerald (Mattherson)•

Maybe, but I prefer actions that encourage fair play rather than restrict it because people will end up working around restrictions that only limit people who play by the rules.

1