Source
r/asoiaf•
TheFarmReport

(Spoilers All) Mysterious Disappearing Shieldhall Shields

ALL

I've reread this whole series... many times. I'm going to be honest though, I have a soft spot for Jon, I don't know why, but I do - so on those rereads, I never read his chapter again (you know the chapter). I just read it again, finally. And when I reread a chapter, I look out for details, especially because... well you know. I want him to be alive.

So he's in the Shieldhall for his announcement. We get a weird description of the past of the shieldhall in a strange style (there are no 'Jon had heard's or anything, just straight description of the distant past). So maybe that means something, but maybe it was a hard chapter to write as well as read, or maybe GRRM's just changing his style, whatever. Anyway, we're now at the current time, and here's some description:

"Fewer than a dozen shields remained, sad grey things with faded paint and long cracks in the wood."

Awesome! is what I'm thinking, because hey maybe one of these belongs to Oh-I-don't-know-maybe-BLOODRAVEN(?), because it hadn't been used in the last hundred years or so (a timescale that included the arrival of some Targaryans at the wall and one of their eventual disappearances into a cave in a hill) but of course it's dusty so we don't know what's on it. Exciting! I wonder if we'll see one of these shields fall off later, and reveal itself? Shields have meant so much to us, at least in the last few books and stories, maybe there's something extra-textual to grab at here!

So John asks if anyone is willing to ride with him South. The Shieldhall explodes! It's crazy! In fact:

"The roar was all he could have hoped for, the tumult so loud that the two old shields tumbled from the walls."

Wait what? THE two shields? How did less than a dozen become two? Did GRRM pull a 'hips' thing and edit out a line where "all the shields but two clattered to the ground"? But he left this one in? I mean, that's all it can mean, right? Because it makes no sense. Are the two old shields important, the others not as old? Earlier there were some axes smashing against shields, but I really took that to mean warriors hitting their own shields to make noise, not people demolishing the decor. What is going on?

It just seems like such an important chapter... I don't know. Seems like a big miss, as far as careful editing goes. Am I missing something cool here?

Posted Aug 24, 2014, 10:16 AM UTC

10815
toilet_brush•

Good spot, although I doubt it is more than a minor editing error. The Shieldhall hasn't been used as a separate dining hall in the last hundred years because there aren't enough knights. I'd assumed it was still used to hang the shields of any knights that do join, and they are taken down when that knight dies. So I don't know what Bloodraven's shield would be doing there, he must have been presumed dead at some point. What would be the significance of his shield still being there anyway?

At the time of this chapter there are only three living knights that I can think of in the NW: Wynton Stout, Denys Mallister, and Alliser Thorne, and they are all old. The description of the Shieldhall's past glory included many shields from houses that don't usually take knight's vows so maybe it is used for anyone who has a sigil at all. Even so there are not many of those left in the NW either.There are also some other knights that died recently out in the wilds and weren't buried so maybe no-one remembered to take down their shields yet in all the great events. This gives us our "fewer than a dozen."

The only significance I can think of with the shields falling down is that maybe those last remaining knights will die as a result of Jon's speech. Or that the old NW of proud knights has finally been replaced by this new coalition of wildlings and condemned criminals.

52
LonaticusTrout or dare!•

Or simply that the last loyal NW's he had left, finally abandoned him. It fits well with the whole "He isolated himself" theme which led to the actions in the conclusion of ADWD.

14
MaxPayloadMord of the Sworning•

That is so weird, and odd that nobody's noticed it before. At least, I don't think they have. It does look like an editing issue to me, but the tantalising question is, what two shields were previously described in detail and subsequently redacted because they revealed more than GRRM wanted? Of course, that's not the only explanation, but the thought of a telltale pair of sigils (I wouldn't have thought Bloodravens would be too revealing: we already know he was there, right?) is pleasing. Going full tinfoil, Dunk and Bloodravens next to each other would be pretty amazing, but that's probably too much! What are the other dream shield pairings?

20
first_five-eighth•

It's a good catch, but I'm gonna go with Occam's Razor on this one and say it's more likely the accidental inclusion of the word "the."

18
LongtableYo gurl I got the longest table around•

It's totally gonna be a Stark shield and then Bloodraven's Targ shield.

8
Eyebeams•

The simplest explanation is that the word "the" is the only mistake, and what was intended was:

... the tumult so loud that two old shields tumbled from the walls.

8
[deleted]•

I mean, two is fewer than a dozen.

5
TheFarmReportOPNever Skip Egg Day•

How many things do you know, Jon Snow?

Fewer than a dozen.

10
Scherzkeks•

And one of them is not who my mom is. ;_;

3
warenhausSo be it, YOLO•

Or near enough to make no matter.

1
TheIceMannIce kissed by Fire•

Could they be old, old weirwood shields? If so the two could be Bran and Bloodraven seeing through the shields...

3
TheStarkGuyColonel Sandor•

Old Weirwood.Net sites that haven't been used in a while but is still there

4
MaudisdottirAngry Villager #2•

I did notice this on my first re-read and I thought it was odd too, and it did seem deliberate after the previous description of the history of the shieldhall, and made me wonder which 2 shields and why were they mentioned.

2
AzorAhai-House Dayne•

Most likely an error like GRRM forgetting eye color. Or an editing error.

1
hamfast42Knight of the Crimson Herring•

Hmm some mundane explanations could be that "the two" is only referring to the two "old" shields or the only two that fell. Or maybe some knight grabbed down their old shields which feels unlikely.

1