Source
r/slowcooking•
irishguy42

Accidentally left crockpot on "Keep Warm" this morning...

...I set up my two pork roasts in the crockpot with marinade and put it on "Keep Warm", planning to turn it to "Low" when I left for work this morning.

...except I forgot to turn it up to "Low." And I can't leave work to go home and fix it.

How much of an issue will this be when I get home today? It will have been in there for about 8.5 hours.

Do I have to throw it out and consider it wasted food? I would really hate to do that...

EDIT: I'm going to chuck it, wash out the pot, and then try again tomorrow morning. I'll leave myself a note on the pot too.

EDIT2: So I got home and measured the temperature of both pieces. They were both 160° F. What do?

Posted Oct 14, 2014, 1:49 PM UTC · edited

196133
Exener•

Bring on the downvotes, but I see the most ridiculous pearl-clutching over food safety in this sub. Your pot roasts are almost certainly fine. Check to see if they're done; if they're not, crank up the heat, let them finish, and eat them.

167
HerpDerpinAtWork•

Seriously...

As a subscriber to both here and r/sousvide, I find it sort of hilarious and tinfoil-hat-y whenever cook times/temperatures come up here, and am blown away by how rigidly people here cling to "if it has spent any amount of time below 140 degrees F, you're a fool if you don't throw it out," or "to make it safe, just throw it in the oven until it's dry and gray."

Meanwhile, over in sous vide land it's not out of the realm of the ordinary to see +30 hour cook times for a roast at med-rare (sub-140) temperatures.

Look at the (often over-cautious, hat tip to u/me_2point0 ) FDA food code. They state that food held at 130 degrees F for 112 minutes is equivalently safe in terms of pathogen destruction as food held at 145 degrees F for just 4 minutes. Also, the actual recommendation about food kept at room temperature is "not kept between 41 degrees F and 130 degrees F for longer than four hours". Just like a "sell by date" on a product doesn't mean "throw it out the next day or you'll die", 4 hours and 5 minutes isn't the point at which your food is suddenly infested with food poisoning. Even in the off-chance that OP's food sat in that range for 5, even 6 hours in the (dramatic pause) DANGER ZONE, it doesn't mean that his food is suddenly infested with diarrhea fuel, especially if he arrives home to find that the crock is north of 130 F. And he will, because [see edit].

TL;DR - Many of the top comments in this thread are over-cautious and under-informed. Throw a meat thermometer in your slow cooker and get to know it some time. See where it's at, and decide if it's safe using common sense and numbers instead of old-wivesy BS.

TL;DR 2 - Ahem, I mean, HAVE YOU EVER HAD FOOD POISONING??? IT'S YOUR SHIT-COLORED FUNERAL.

[Edit to add:]

It's also worth mentioning that the settling temperature for Keep Warm mode on a slow cooker is very definitely going to be out of the "Danger Zone". On Cuisinart slow cookers, the settling temperature for Keep Warm mode is 165 degrees F. Anecdotal evidence around the internet suggests that other brands settle even higher, and that in all cases I can find where someone's actually sat down and measured, they're going to be out of the danger zone in less than four hours, even if you're starting at the hairy bottom edge of it.

[/Edit]

130
swindy92•

Why, why did you have to inform me that r/sousvide exists.....

I'm just a poor college student, I can't keep buying fancy cooking toys D:

21
KingPellinore•

http://www.instructables.com/id/Sous-vide-cooker-for-less-than-40/

8
me_2point0•

cool! that looks way better than my solution, which was a johnson controls digital temperature controller with the crockpot. it does the job but so many wires!

2
undetachablepenis•

Jack off a horse?

0
HerpDerpinAtWork•

Fancy toys?

You're a college student - do you already have a beer cooler? If so, you're all set for the vast majority of sous vide recipes (barring the overnight or day+ long things)

3
swindy92•

See, if I was a normal person that would be a fine plan.

But, r/Scotch has been a bad influence....

That and as I've always had a deep interest in cooking I tend to go far deeper into these things than I should/can afford to.

For now we just subscribe and put it off :P

2
irishguy42OP•

I got home and measured the temp of both roasts. They were 160°F. It has been ~9 hours between being put in and me getting home and measuring them.

Think it's safe for me to put more liquid in, crank it to high and then wait 2 or 3 hours? They didn't smell bad or anything.

7
Exener•

Eat them! They're done!

10
666666666•

They are done now. No need for any more cooking.

5
glodime•

Also, the actual recommendation about food kept at room temperature is "not kept between 41 degrees F and 130 degrees F for longer than four hours". Just like a "sell by date" on a product doesn't mean "throw it out the next day or you'll die",

This analogy is wrong. A sell by date is not the same as a use by date.

4 hours and 5 minutes isn't the point at which your food is suddenly infested with food poisoning.

No. But that's when the FDA says the odds increase to the point where its worth throwing it away.

Even in the off-chance that OP's food sat in that range for 5, even 6 hours in the (dramatic pause) DANGER ZONE, it doesn't mean that his food is suddenly infested with diarrhea fuel

No but it is more likely to have enough pathogens to have an adverse reaction.

, especially if he arrives home to find that the crock is north of 130 F.

Over 130 F is critical here. Don't trivialize and conflate with sous vide in which oxygen is removed.

5
me_2point0•

Thanks for the hat tip! and for a needed dose of practical sense...

3
Homophones_FTW•

Hear hear!

The one that drives me nuts is the whole "don't put frozen meat in the crock!" thing.

Baloney. I do that every single day. I am still here.

2
shicken684•

The food temperature numbers are put together considering you will be serving to an at risk population like a day care or nursing home or hospital. The FDA doesn't want two different numbers that will confuse people. The temperature they recommend is the safest but if you're 35 and in good health it's going to take a bit more to make you sick.

1
brilliantjoe•

When you're doing sous vide for a medium rare, you aren't slowly ramping the temperature of the cooking medium up to 130-135 and then letting it drop off to some nebulous 'warm' temperature. The whole point of sous vide is that you cook the food in a cooking medium that is maintained at exactly the temperature you want the end food to be cooked at, and the medium stays at this temperature until you turn it off and remove the food you're cooking.

Doing a 135F sous vide for 30 hours is COMPLETELY different from leaving food sitting at room temperature or at some unknown "warming" temperature for hours. Sitting at 135F, bacterial growth is inhibited and living bacteria die, whereas sitting between 41F and 130F lets bacteria grow and multiply, and the longer it's sitting at that temperature the higher your chances of having a bacterial colony explosion.

No one is quoting "old wivesy bs", food sitting in the "danger zone" for hours should be considered unsafe, period. Sous vide isn't sitting in the danger zone, unless someone specifically chooses to do so and hopefully in doing so they understand the risks involved. You should know better, since you're insinuating that you know better than everyone in this sub.

I'm actually surprised that someone that is into sous vide is wanting to play fast and loose with the rules of safe cooking. The whole sous vide approach is methodical and controlled, while what you're preaching is not.

-6
me_2point0•

Only if the slowcooker on "keep warm" won't get above 130F. I don't know of any that exist that stay below 165F, because (afaik) the "Keep warm" function wasn't invented until after they started raising the temps on crock pots. The most popular brands get above 130F on "keep warm" in 1-3 hours (assuming you aren't thawing an ice block, of course).

Let's not forget, it's just as safe to eat rare pork as it is to eat rare beef, but in America rare beef makes many people anxious and rare pork is usually out of the question.

3
yasth•

Eh, I get what you are saying, but it is an issue of thermal mass, and it really depends on the heating pattern. Most manual crock pots and poorly designed digital ones aren't aggressive about getting up to temperature. Modern designs generally run up to safe temperatures and then slack off, while older ones take a very long time to get up to temperature (Cooks Illustrated ended up calling out one crock pot brand manual for not getting up to temp on low (much less keep warm) with a lot of liquid.

1
allididiswin•

Agreed.

9
bcrabill•

Yeah a ton of the people here are a little uptight on food safety, but I would also venture that a lot of people here are cooking for their families. I cook for myself and follow the "a little dirt don't hurt" school of food safety, but if I were cooking for a family, especially one with children, I would raise my standards. As a side note, I have gotten food poisoning exactly once and it was at a restaurant.

1
diomed3•

Anyone who says otherwise is the fool. Like OP of this post, a goddamn fool for throwing out their roast

-1
RosesSpins•

I'm going to go against what others here are saying . . . sort of. I'd take a temp first. My slow cooker's "keep warm" temp is 150 to 160 degrees. Above the 140 danger zone. So if yours temps the same way, you could eat it safely. If it's below, then do the unthinkable and throw it out!

61
Big_girl_panties•

Yeah, I actually treat keep warm as low on my newer digital crockpot or thinks get over-coked and dried out too quickly. I think slow cookers over the last decade or so have been getting hotter. My 1980s pot truly cooks lower and slower than the keep warm option on my big modern one.

I'd check the meat temp and decide from there.

16
pkbowen•

I noticed the same when I upgraded from a late '80s-vintage unit (a hand-me-down from my mom) to a newer one. Maybe it's a food safety/liability thing?

5
Big_girl_panties•

That's my assumption. My older pot was my MIL's, brown ceramic with funky design, still running beautifully, but definitely cooks slower

4
pkbowen•

brown ceramic with funky design

That sounds eerily familiar.

The lid on my old one was as heavy as sin, too. I'm pretty sure it could have been thrown out of a third story window and would've survived.

4
funkymunniez•

It's probably more of a newer crock pot works more like it's supposed to thing.

If you're using a 25 year old crock pot it's not going to do as well as it did the first 5 years.

3
elliotsmithlove•

Yeah the high setting on my crockpot is only usable if I am at home to monitor it because it's so darn high!

2
KidMoxie•

Yeah, check the temp on the pot when you get home. I've clocked my slow cooker's "warm" setting at ~150ºF. I actually use my warm setting as a cheapo sous-vide.

6
me_2point0•

It's fine. But don't expect anyone to believe you.

The Complex Origins of Food Safety Rules--Yes, You Are Overcooking Your Food

52
60secs•

This subject really benefits from a graph showing the relationship between temperature / time & pathogen reduction

http://www.modernistcookingmadeeasy.com/story_image/image/89/sous-vide-chicken-safety-chart.jpg

http://www.modernistcookingmadeeasy.com/pages/beginning-sous-vide-guide

http://www.seriouseats.com/2010/04/sous-vide-basics-low-temperature-chicken.html

8
me_2point0•

word

2
turkeypants•

Nah, it was probably Excel.

13
savyur•

Today on r/slowcooking....

Russian Roulette with meat!!

Just don't feed it to any kids or old people.

Ever had food poisoning? If so and you are ok with it go ahead.

50
Fat_Head_Carl•

Will he speckle the bowl or not???

Tune in tomorrow for the exciting result!

29
HittingSmoke•

Ehh. I've had Vibrio. After that red meat doesn't scare me. The things you'll get from pork or beef are like a stubbed toe compared to that week I spent curled up into a ball.

7
TedTheViking•

After shitting out 1/4 of your body weight in a week, Salmonella probably would seem like a picnic.

7
HittingSmoke•

The shitting is by far the tame part. The cramps come in waves of pain that crash over you. The worst part is you can feel them coming ahead of time so the anticipation makes the cramp worse as your whole body tenses up. A few time I just fell down on the floor mid step and curled up into a ball because I knew what was coming.

Yeah. Do not recommend.

3
NonaSuomi282•

Vibrio

Undercooked seafood? Fuuuuuuck that.

6
HittingSmoke•

Raw oysters.

5
sodaporp•

We need u/AutoModerator up in here.

Or else I volunteer to be the r/slowcooking bookie. 3:1 on salmonella.

6
turkeypants•

I'll take some of that action, champ.

1
MsAlign•

I wouldn't risk it. The chance of you getting sick from the bacterial broth is just too high.

I did this once with pot roast and reluctantly threw it away, while humming Taps.

27
NoItNone•

You'll be fine. I eat questionable meats all the time. I don't even get diarrhea anymore.

19
turkeypants•

I've spent the last few years of my life building up an immunity to iocane powder.

2
astaldotholwen•

Inconceivable!

1
Befriendswbob•

Can you call a neighbor and ask them to turn it up to high or low?

15
bigjaymck•

After seeing your edit about leaving a note on the pot...instead of a note, which you won't see unless you're looking at the pot anyway, leave your car keys (or shoes, or something else you won't/can't leave without) right in front of it.

9
irishguy42OP•

Good idea. I should put one shoe on each handle.

5
Meatwad60niiinne•

I meaaaann............. it might cook all the way through. I would cut the meat in the thickest point to see how much it cooked. If you have a meat thermometer that would be a big help. If you don't maybe on the way home from work go grab one from the store. It wouldn't hurt, you'll always have one, and you will be able to tell for sure if your pork is safe to consume. Good luck :)

8
cturkosi•

If OP removes the meat from the marinade (assuming it's now tender but maybe has some bacteria on the surface) and cooks it at 250-300F (140-150C) for maybe 15 minutes, it should kill any pathogens on the surface.

The inside of the meat should be pathogen-free and edible so I don't think it's a lost cause. 9 hours is not enough for meat to go completely bad, but the marinade may have gone sour.

11
PotatosAreDelicious•

Killing the pathogens later doesn't kill all of the bacterial waste left behind. The bacteria will work faster if it's kept at a warm temp. Bacterial waste=food poisoning. It probably won't kill you but it could leave you on the toilet.

34
[deleted]•

I'm amazed how often this has to be explained here. It's 2014 we should all have a rudimentary understanding of how microbiology works with regard to food borne pathogens.

12
brilliantjoe•

I explain this day after day on this sub, and constantly get crapped on for it. While I might personally play fast and loose with the rules and eat food that may be unsafe, I would NEVER tell someone else to do something unsafe with food, as it would be my fault if they got sick because of my advice.

3
Prime618•

Should never means do.

2
PotatosAreDelicious•

Yeah if it's kept at over 100 degrees f It will probably spoil in 3-5 hours. Fine in the fridge at 40 degrees for a day but not kept in 100+ degree temp.

1
w_larsen•

With at least the exception of botulism toxin, which is easily destroyed with heat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botulinum_toxin#Sources

1
autowikibot•

#####

######

#### Section 10. Sources of article Botulinum toxin:

Botulism toxins are produced by the bacteria Clostridium botulinum, C. butyricum, C. baratii and C. argentinense. Foodborne botulism can be transmitted through food that has not been heated correctly prior to being canned or food that was not cooked correctly from a can. Most infant botulism cases cannot be prevented because the bacteria that cause this disease are in soil and dust. The bacteria can be found inside homes on floors, carpet, and countertops even after cleaning. Honey can contain the bacteria that cause infant botulism, so children less than 12 months old should not be fed honey. Honey is safe for persons one year of age and older.

^Interesting: ^Botulism ^| ^Botulinum ^toxin ^therapy ^of ^strabismus ^| ^Clostridium ^botulinum ^| ^Neurotoxin

^Parent ^commenter ^can [^toggle ^NSFW](/message/compose?to=autowikibot&subject=AutoWikibot NSFW toggle&message=%2Btoggle-nsfw+cl98qsx) ^or [^delete](/message/compose?to=autowikibot&subject=AutoWikibot Deletion&message=%2Bdelete+cl98qsx)^. ^Will ^also ^delete ^on ^comment ^score ^of ^-1 ^or ^less. ^| ^(FAQs) ^| ^Mods ^| ^Magic ^Words

1
TedTheViking•

Microbiology student here. Roughly speaking, cooking something for a short time at a high temperature can be roughly equivalent to cooking something for a long time at a comparatively low temperature (as far as bacteria-killing goes, and within reason.)

The "keep warm" setting on slow cookers commonly equilibrates around 165F, or about 73C. This should be more than sufficient to kill any worrisome pathogens if it was cooking for over 8 hours.

The best way would have been to stick a meat thermometer in the roasts and see how hot they were, but I guess that ship has sailed already, so...

8
irishguy42OP•

I came home and measured them to both be at 160°F. So I guess it's fine?

5
TedTheViking•

I'd eat it. I'm pretty sure my Microbiology professor would eat it if she wasn't vegetarian.

5
jmurphy42•

Just noticed your username... Hello, kindred spirit.

1
getsome13•

Throw it out.

7
zastels•

You can't make any decision before you temp it.

7
savyur•

Temp is only a part of the equation. Time is equally as important. As in how long was the food within the danger zone of 40 to 140 F degrees. Although you can argue that all slowcooking has food in the danger zone for far too long, I still use it from time to time.

9
zastels•

I'd bring the pork to 185 in this circumstance and then rapidly cool it, and if eating a left over reheat one single time to 185 again.

If this was a restaurant I'd toss it.

1
hatestheinternet•

185? what crazy land do you live in where that's necessary?

2
KingPellinore•

Collagen breaks down best around 190F, and is what would otherwise make cuts like pork shoulder unpleasantly tough.

This is why when smoking a shoulder for barbecue, one generally shoots for between 190-200 before pulling it off the smoker.

1
zastels•

Sorry I was wrong, 165 is what my local health unit legislates what food must be reheated to for 15 seconds.

1
archetype4•

That's crazy high. You should only need to put it on high until it reaches just above 150 and then let it sit there for another 5 minutes or so.

1
zastels•

Sorry I was wrong, 165 is what my local health unit legislates what food must be reheated to for 15 seconds.

1
Shail666•

I'm not going to lie- I always leave my slow cooking on the warm function. It's the slowest of slow cooking- but as long as you check on the meat before eating, you should be fine.

7
helasraizam•

The little information I've gathered from this thread and elsewhere tells me you need to reevaluate your method. Kinda looks like "keep warm" isn't hot enough to prevent bacterial growth, whereas the other settings are, and that is a big no-no.

-3
joethehoe27•

The only people presenting facts say it could be fine. Everyone else is just claiming OP will get food poisoning because it did not instantly heat to 140°.

7
Shail666•

That's what I thought... My meat is thoroughly cooked through if I leave it for 8+ hours, and it keeps sealed with a locked-in lid. My 'warm' function may be warmer than usual, maybe- but if I kept it at low I'd be afraid of it drying out before I got home.

3
diomed3•

He does it because it works fine for him. He doesn't need to reevaluate anything. Get out of here spreading shit you read five minutes ago as fact.

1
helasraizam•

Yeah I'm just relaying the thread consensus so u/Shail666 is aware. Since when is

The little information I've gathered from this thread and elsewhere

spreading something as fact?

You need to relax.

0
w_larsen•

I mean, your safety is your responsibility, but... Warm on a crock pot has to be around 165 degrees (outside of the danger zone or what was the point of keeping it warm?) and you have two hours in the danger zone to work with. If your meat wasn't frozen, then there's a really good chance that it reached at least 165 degrees within two hours. Also, people cook meat at about that temp (see r/smoking and r/sousvide) on purpose for upwards of 12 hours quite frequently.

7
AntiMe•

The danger zone ends at 130.

3
w_larsen•

Whoops. It is much lower, though I'm seeing 140 more commonly. I should have guessed. I've seen sous vide at 135, which would be crazy if it ended at 165.

1
AntiMe•

Actually all common food pathogens stop multiplying at 126.1F, but it takes forever to kill existing ones at that temperature. 165F is instant death for all of them.

3
AuggieTheBear•

It's time at temperature to pasteurize food. And not every nook, cranny, and fold will uniformly heat.

More than you'd ever want to know about food safety here

2
pinion13•

Check the temp of the liquid/meat when you get home, if it is decently high, like around 140, I would kick it up to high for a few hours and give it a shot. It may not be hot enough at all though... totally a judgement call.

2
bogartbrown•

Ah, man, posts like this make me want one of these!

2
Rosydoodles•

I need this... Why is it not available in the UK!

That said, I spent £10 on my slow cooker from Argos... Though it is limited to "on" or "off" ;)

2
irishguy42OP•

This looks amazing and I want it.

1
pruriENT_questions•

My keep it warm setting on my slow cooker is rather warm... hotter than the low setting, so if your cooker is anything like mine, you'll come home to dry pork.

2
Charles_Grodin•

I'm with this guy. My keep warm setting is way higher than low.

1
Fat_Head_Carl•

Hey OP...

Did you Speckle the Bowl or what????

2
irishguy42OP•

I didn't eat a bunch last night, as I was cooking it for lunch slices.

However, I did eat a good amount last night for testing and I can confirm that nothing harmful has happened to me.

3
Fat_Head_Carl•

I personally wouldn't have....but the other part of me is glad to hear you didn't have to waste food.

1
irishguy42OP•

Well, after I got home and found the meat at 160 F, I put about 2 cups of water into it and then put it on high for ~2.5 hours. And then I tasted it. And it was fine and not dried out, so I guess it's all good :P

1
fallingshoes•

Ugh, I started a pot roast before heading out today... Now I'm going to wonder if I really set it to low or made your mistake.

1
Bigfrostynugs•

If you've ever had food poisoning before then you should already know the answer to this question

1