So why exactly is Black Knight much rarer now?

I hear people saying that Black Knight is "out of the meta", and I certainly see it a lot less, but I have no idea why. I still play him and get value from him in almost every game. Here's a simple list of reasons why I think he's still an auto-include in several decks

A) Belcher hasn't gone anywhere. Was it supposed to go somewhere?

B) Paladin is back: Quartermuster decks run Belchers, one or two Arguses (which will generally net you either a 3/6 or a 4/4) and, of course, Tirion. Plenty of value.

C) The element of surprise: Because other people aren't running Black Knight, I see far more opponents just casually taunting up giants for no reason than I used to when he was in almost every deck. Gives you an opportunity for a huge swing.

D) Rusty Horn: if you run mechs, you can combo this with Black Knight for a 7 mana assasinate + Yeti. Even if you don't, you'll run into plenty of mech decks - and, related to the last point, they're far more likely to just casually taunt up without thinking about it than they would if TBK was popular.

E) Annoy-o-tron: People may feel that it's not an amazing target, but destroying a 2 mana card is mroe than enough value. And being able to get past that little bugger to get at the juicy minions hiding behind him is huge. Having to waste, for example, an attack from a Belcher and a swing of a weapon just to kill an annoy-o-tron is incredibly painful, and can be game-losing.

F) Less Loatheb, More Harrison: Not a huge point, but it was always annoying how TBK died to an incredibly common 5 drop. He will however trade with Harrison, who's semi-replaced Loatheb: important if you're playing as say Druid, and your opponent does turn 5 Belcher, turn 6 Harrison: TBK will practically eliminate both cards.

Seriously, I don't get it at all: I know people are making space for new GvG cards, in particular Dr Boom, but there are a fair few things I'd cut from a controlish deck before I'd cut The Black Knight.

Posted Jan 4, 2015, 1:48 PM UTC

6841
Ersee_•

It loses you games vs hunter and zoo. Both decks run fewer taunts than before (zoo down to 1 argus, hunter very rarely houndmasters). Mech decks usually run only annoyotron, and 1 often gets played early, so you are holding black knight for one card exactly.

I tried running BK myself for a while in shaman but it was just sitting in my hand far too much.

I think it has some potential in controlly spare part decks, the rusty horn combo is pretty strong. Also control paladin/warrior can afford a super situational card like BK. Finally, different types of druid can run it (ramp because you can afford the situational value play, and combo because taunts are often the only thing denying your win).

47
JaxonOSU•

I know this is kind of irrelevant, but I didn't start playing again until very recently. I was already subbed here though, and I genuinely thought that "annoyotron" was just a bitchy slang for some broken card.

15
[deleted]•

[deleted]

-14
Revelation_X•

But yeah I'm going to have to agree on the existence of aggro being the strongest reason. Using a black knight to kill voidwalkers is a 5 mana yeti at best, houndmasters are an inconsistent card in hunter decks now, and many types of aggro decks exist (mech mage, mech druid) that either don't include taunts, or only include taunts that don't quite justify running a situational 6 drop (like annoyatron, which only provides minimal yeti value). In addition, a underwhelming turn 5 body against aggro hurts slightly less than an underwhelming turn 6 body.

As a control warrior player, I'd rather run a stronger legendary or a more relavent 6 drop (shieldmaiden for slams and sylvanas is pretty much auto include).

Overall, I'd opt for harrison to give you both tempo gain+card draw over black knight now against the majority of the control decks you mentioned. Being forced to harrison a 1 durability death's bite, truesilver, or even 3 durability light's justice (for cards) is never bad, and putting a gorehowl, ashbringer, or bloodfury can be game changing.

1
FreeGothitelle•

Druid and Warrior were the main two classes that used to run black knight I feel. Slower druids (not the mech variants) can still run it if they want, it generally gets value there.

Warrior has no room because shieldmaidens exist for the 6 mana slot, and are just too incredible/consistent to cut.

20
SharpyShuffleOP•

Warrior has no room because shieldmaidens exist for the 6 mana slot, and are just too incredible/consistent to cut.

But TBK isn't really a turn 6 play, anymore than Harrison is an automatic turn 5 play or BGH is a turn 3 play: you hold it in hand until the right moment. The only time it is a turn 6 play is to answer something like a turn 5 Belcher or Druid of the Claw, at which point it's a great play anyway.

I don't think you can compare tech cards and normal minions like that. New 3 drops wouldn't push out BGH, and I don't think a new 6 drop should push out TBK.

5
EndlessRambler•

Except that for the last several months the absolute best play for TBK was turn 6 on curve against a turn 5 belcher or DotC. Every other time it just feels underwhelming, especially since 4/5's don't trade as well as they used to with the big influx of 5/5 or higher bodies.

5
Veneretio•

I think you've answered your own question. As has been said here already, BGH is doing similar if not better things a lot of the time. The other times, if TBK isn't being played on turn 6... that's a problem. Dr. Boom exists now so we're doing better things every turn after 6. If TBK doesn't immediately hit on 6, when do you play him? Dr. Boom into Rag into Alex into... when?

The quality of high cost minions has just improved too much. The number of truly high value taunt minions has dropped. TBKing a belcher isn't even that exciting and that's pretty much the best case scenario. TBK will be back at its best when it can kill Druid of the Claw type minions again. Until then, I think it's better to be playing BGH.

2
vtxAishi•

Rag and Alex aren't auto-play, so the point is moot.

-1
dicenight•

With GvG, deck slots have even more competition. And, with the popularity of Dr. Boom, BGH is hogging a tech slot in many decks.

7
NOT_A-DOG•

It has been replaced by BGH.

You only want one card that is that narrowly good against control, and right now BGH is just as good if not better than black knight! I've seen tauntless druid decks, and that was the main matchup where TBK shined brightest.

BGH is much better against agro decks because at the very least it is a cheap minion, even if it is bad.

6
Bil28•

I run it instead of harrison, has gotten me insanes amount of value vs handlock / druid / paladin and the regular belcher.

On the other hand it's a pretty useless card vs the aggro decks which dominate the current meta.

5
Zhandaly•

I feel like it's only good in higher ranks when the metagame slows down. Even there, Harrison is better against weapon decks because of the card draw value, whereas Black Knight only gains tempo. Both cards have their uses, but I think Black Knight is better in tournament play than it is in ladder play.

9
strongfarce•

God I wish the meta game slowed down in the higher ranks. Hunters and zoo everywhere right now.

6
Zhandaly•

It's the beginning of the season, what do you expect? I have positive winrates against both decks so I could care less, really...

-3
strongfarce•

Frustration. I'm only at like 40-45% with them but I hate them.

2
BronzeBoss•

I think this is pretty easily explained: Dr. Boom is an auto-include --> BGH and Sylvanas both become more tempting to add --> Limited deck space causes the decline in TBK-use.

3
Chancery0•

I've teched it in and out. It's weak against hunter/zoo/mech mage so it requires an upsurge in druid and handlock to make sense.

2
Robbierr•

Also everyone and their mother seems to be playing ultra taunt Druid for the last few days, I don't know what's up with that. I put it back in my deck as well.

1
tehbolle•

Probably the 3 or 4 JUST GOT LEGEND WITH DRUID posts that we've seen over the past few days ;)

1
edmcanada•

Black knight has been my absolute MVP in my deck getting insane value. There's always an opportunity to play it with all of the taunts floating around including argus and houndmasters in the aggro decks.

1
InoyouS2•

Why exactly are more belchers and annoy-o-trons better for Black Knight? Belcher has another body to worry about and annoy-o-tron is a 2 drop, that's why they are so good in this meta, they are cheap and extremely difficult to remove, even with black knight.

1
Mindlapse1•

it's simply too slow with the mech/GvG shenanigans released

1
Mr_Mustang•

Actually, I've been seeing it more often then I used to.

1
AzureDrag0n1•

Combo Druids still run it because they have to get through those taunts to setup next turn combo. If you do not run combo decks then it is less important to absolutely get through a taunt.

1
Bobwayne17•

I just posted about this like last week. TBK is still really strong against zoo because you can destroy whatever they argus if you want, you don't have to immediately play him out just because you're playing zoo.

Against hunter you get to kill their houndmaster target with him. He has the potential to hit every "popular" deck right now.

1
ducksa•

The most common hunter deck I see doesn't run a taunt. TBK vs zoo is sketchy because it's tough to have it when you need it.

1
The_MrShine•

Yeah I'm surprised too, if anything I'd say it should be used more. Rusty horn occasionally means TBK becomes 7 mana -> 4/5 with a battlecry of 'destroy target creature' which is pretty insane.

1
dezign999•

As a Druid, Naturalize has become a lot more useful in this meta and the taunt requirement for TBK to be effective in clutch situations has been its downfall for my style of play.

1
Mezmorizor•

In my last 5 hours of playtime, I've seen exactly 0 decks slower than mech druid. Those druids aren't exactly common either. EU may be a different story, but if you want to be a spike on NA, you need to be teching aggressively against aggro.

1
justMate•

I still think that before before sludge belcher came out with a certain wing of Naxx there were few Black knights than now for example.

0
Isocyan8•

Not sure about that, prior to belcher being an auto-include, lots of decks played sunwalker, and black knight gets maximum value there. I saw a bunch of black knight after the leeroy nerf. Guess everybody dusted Leeroy and crafted a black knight

1
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
[deleted]•

[deleted]

0
pblankfield•

Most decks cannot run a full collection of tech cards and have to make a selection between Silence, BGH or TBK (you can add Kazan in here as well)...the first two almost always have a good target but TBK... what do you want to hit with it?

At least 50% of the ladder is aggro. The best you can hope to hit is an argused small minion or an annoy-o-tron - around 2 mana destoyed. You are basically neutral on value by doing this (6 mana yeti kills a 2 mana creature). Compare this to running a BGH which is almost guaranteed to hit a target because Dr. Boom which is more or less 6 mana gained.

Against midrange and control the most obvious target is Belcher, but you only kill the 3/5 with it leaving a 1/2 behind. It's just not great of a play overall.

Against handlock BGH is just flat out better.

If Paladin and Ramp Druid become rampant you can be sure to see TBK a lot because destroying an AoW and silence+TBK a Tiron are just huge swings that will warrant the deck slot.

0
MattOverMind•

You can't silence + TBK Tirion. :)

7
Wendek•

Silence + rusty horn + TBK then ?

1
jpjamal•

LOL. As common as turn 10: TBK + Harrison.

-2