San responds to the matchfixing allegations (in english)
twitlonger.com/show/n_1sk5aog
twitlonger.comPosted Jan 20, 2015, 8:13 PM UTC
33985
twitlonger.comFlash went from godmode to 1-4. Clearly matchfixing guys.
Wish people could have shitty days / slumps without being accused of something that might ruin their career for no reason.
55
Its not just a shitty day its a shitty day next to a 5 figure bet that makes it suspicious. Even if there is no match fixing it sounds possible someone was familiar with his predicament and hoped to profit from it.
The suspicions were reasonable but no one went on a witch hunt and his explanation is perfectly reasonable. I don't see how the community was out to ruin his career?
3
It's fucking Bullshit. Those accusation can ruin a career really fast...
43
No way was San match fixing, he has been around forever and has always had very inconsistent play. Glad he responded immediately instead of letting the situation get extremely out of hand.
As a side note I really hope he gets healthy soon and can focus on his play again.
39
there is no way Savior would match fix
like innocent until proven guilty but we've been burned worse than this before
where is Rekrul when we need him?
-4
It must suck for your brain to just make you spout random babble
2
where is Rekrul when we need him
enjoying dat poker money
1
he was enjoying it the last time he saved e-sports tho
1
I feel so bad for San now, I hope it doesn't effect his play in Proleague
23
pretty sure something like this would have effect on anyone.
8
just go read eff0rt's story, about the time he was drunk on stream and started some RealTalk about CJ Entus' way of doing things...
we say that we go to pitchforks easily on reddit, koreans are fast to stirr drama too
3
I read it when it was posted on TL, this is a very different situation though.
3
why would startale send him out if he had all these issues, you killing ma fpl
16
They submit the lineup like a week in advance. They were probably hoping he would be better by then.
22
Right now Dark is considered really strong. It could be they knew San had issues and sent him knowing he would lose. This way they could save their stronger players to play the other players on SKT. In Proleague sometimes you send someone out to snipe a player sometimes you just accept the lost and try to use the rest of the team to make up for it.
6
IIRC, they don't know who the other team is sending when they set their rosters.
3
That is correct. They are only given the maps and the order in which they are played. I assume from there it's just mine games like "oh this guy is really good on this map they will probably play him so we play our this guy" and "they know we will play our this guy on this map so they might counter with this guy so we play this other guy" and such. The teams then submit who will play on which map a week before they games are to be played.
2
In addition to what everyone else has said, San has almost built his career around being a PvZ specialist, so it makes sense they might try to send him out to snipe Dark, who is one of the strongest players in Korea atm.
1
Good enough for me. No good reason to suspect him any further unless more evidence comes to light.
10
Man imagine losing for your team, having these wrist issues then suspected for match fixing for losing, pretty crappy. Hope everything turns out ok.
10
We have basically no evidence, except that some guy bet a ton of money on Dark, and then Dark won. Is that suspicious? Sure. Does it confirm anything? Of course not! Do an investigation and, until then, there's nothing to say.
10
It's not just that. First of all, it most probably wasn't just 1 guy. There are limits on how much you can bet and even if you bet all of it, just 1 guy wouldn't alert the mathematical algorythm that alerted pinnacle in the first place.
What was happening was that the odds on Dark winning were going down and down all the time and even at odds as low as 1.20, numerous people (may call it also a group of people) was betting huge amounts of money on the match.
Just imagine, multiple people betting tens of thousands of dollars on such low odds - means they have all of it to lose, but only a very small amount to win. It can be assumed those people knew the result and that's what triggered the mathematical algorythm.
2
Why would they even suspect him of matchfixing? o.O
8
Because they lost a lot of money and don't wanna pay up
-6
Pinnacle handle billions of dollars every year in bets, they sure as fuck didn't do this to save a couple of thousands.
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[deleted]
-5
They removed the lines long before the match even started. Before you accuse someone of something serious, you better have something to back up your claims.
5
You should tell that to Pinnacle.
-1
They say the "bet placement pattern" indicate it. They don't accuse San.
They say " the match was not played on a fair basis".
Just to give you one out of several other possible scenarios. The coach knew about his condition, still seated him and bet a huge amount against him.
6
Why would anyone think San is better than Dark ahahhaa
-7
San did 2-0 him about two weeks ago in IEM qualifiers, it's not like there's an enormous disparity.
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[deleted]
0
We should start to judge players based on their decision making and play. Based on the "evidence", we should throw most of them to the KeSPA Jail immediately. Notable examples:
Classic should know about 2nd proxy hatch, did nothing. Matchfixing.
Maru lost his hellions like a gold league player vs Life. Matchfixing.
FlaSh, Solar and sOs were great and now they mostly lost their games, they are matchfixing.
If Creator woudn't kill Zest's observer with lucky Archon's splash dmg this would be the biggest throw of this year so far. Clearly matchfixing.
7
what are you talking about?
"The bet placement pattern clearly indicates that the match was not played on a fair basis. "
They removed the line long before the match started.
1
Why are you getting upvotes for these examples that have no relevance for Pinnacle's suspicion of match-fixing?
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Because they liked my comment. #thatshowredditworks
2
They liked your message. The evil company vs the hardworking little man.
Unfortunately, people don't like researching the actual facts or how the betting market works, but rather follow what they want to believe.
#thatshowtheworldworks
1
It doesn't even really make sense. While San can play really well, I never would have put him in as an auto win vs. Dark who has looked pretty solid in recent weeks.
I don't buy any of this.
4
The bet ratios were in favor of dark not san...
2
And dark won, no? The favored opponent won, what am I missing?
2
You are missing this - when the odds for the match first appeared, it was 55-45% (2.15 odds on San, 1.8 odds on Dark) and at one moment suddenly dropped all the way to 35-65% (1.4 odds on Dark)
This type of live movement is only "legit" during the live betting, and if its occures before the start of the match it means one of two things : matchfixing, or crucial inside information.
3
Because Dark was favored anyway. Why would they need to fix the game, when most people already thought that dark is going to win ?
The betters (?) probably knew about San's condition and put even more money on dark.
0
Why would they need to fix the game, when most people already thought that dark is going to win ?
That's what I was saying. I don't know how this alleged match fixing makes sense.
3
You assume that you just bet on the favourite every time? If i give you 100:1 odds between san and dark you still bet on dark because he is the better player?
I don't see why there can only be matchfixing when the underdog wins.
1
San is one of the few players that just doesn't have the mindset to do this, he left the TeSL to dedicate 100% to WCS on EU (and he had amazing results on WCS EU).
He really is an amazing player and I wish this whole thing just disappears quickly and doesn't tarnish his reputation at all ;_;
3
how dare you! there are even statements by regular gamblers with a grand total of 1 comment on r/starcraft offering undebatable evidence that the match was fixed... they know best right?
1
You can mock the knowledge of people who know the bookmaker industry, how it operates and how it ties into match fixing all you want. The reality is that a big percentage of the comments in these posts that are refuting any foul play are showing a completely lack of understanding of how these systems work. It's absurd how people who don't even have basic knowledge of how a bookmaker operates are so sure that the claim is bogus.
The evidence that are out there are definitively debatable for now, but they are also very serious in the eyes of people who know the bookmaker industry and Pinnacle. Sweeping this under the rug as empty accusations may be in the interest of the Sc2 community (as a match fixing scandal could be devastating), but there are very good reasons to think that something went down surrounding this match that was outside of the realm of fair play.
4
So the guy is having a rough time and every one is all like....you be fixing shit...?
3
hmmm Yeah that sounds perfectly reasonable, and watching the vod I didn't see anything that seemed really that bad. Obviously I don't have the betting data. But if someone had his medical info and bet based on that it could explain a sudden flip.
2
Can somebody explain what happened please? T_T i dont understand this, what matchfixing?
1
We support you San. Hope you start feeling better so that you can come back and start owning nerds again. Much love!
1
yeah, I'd be less worried about matchfixing and more "oh, I know San has been going to the hospital, I guess his play will be bad"
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[deleted]
1
Leave San alone D:
1
Seems reasonable to me.
It would make much more sense to believe that the information about San having pain and going to the hospital got out and someone tried to use this knowledge to bet to make some money than it does to believe San is matchfixing.
does that count as insider information?
Oh wait I mean I have none but his injury yes is insider info
so that would make the 5 figure bet illegal, yes?
Betting is not securities trading, there's nothing illegal about using insider information. That's why bookmakers will take games off the board if they think something is going on.
possibly if that is indeed what happened.
Insider information in betting is usually considered acceptable. It would be like if let's say there are two evenly matched fighters in a boxing or MMA match. Betting lines are 50-50, then one fighter goes on and says "Actually I haven't been able to practice for 2 weeks, I had to go to the hospital because I dislocated my shoulder in practice, it was just sore and I needed to recovery."
If you then make a bet on his opponent because of that info, it's just you adjusting for an edge that isn't reflected.
How casually might San have mentioned his hospital visit / his wrists hurting to cause someone in the industry to bet on his opponent. As a gambling person if I heard that and the betting lines were not reflecting that fact I would snap bet because the expected value / return of my bet is higher than the risk. Insider trading is against the law in stocks / publicly traded companies and securities, not in betting. In betting it's just an advantage.
No...?
My thoughts exactly.
If anything, it's just a slap to Dark himself who has been on something of a god damn tear lately. Some days you are the pidgeon...
Aliens, it's always aliens.