Has anyone ever made a list of what moves can/cannot be platform cancelled(different from edge-cancelling)? According to the wiki, "it is harder (and possibly impossible) to drop cancel aerial attacks that generally shift the character downwards (like Marth's down aerial)." What other attacks does this apply to? Can Falcon's down-air be platform cancelled?
Posted Feb 28, 2015, 4:37 PM UTC
For a platform cancel to work, the attack must come out quick enough and must be strong enough so that the ECB update that happens on the 10th platform drop frame happens during hitlag. The ECB must be above the platform on that update frame, which adds onto the need to be quick. If the character has a slow fall speed or the aerial lifts the bottom of the ECB, then that'll help.
A good example of how strength is important is Mario's nair platform cancel. Mario's nair deals 12% on the first frame, Doc's deals 10% on the first frame. Doc is not in hitlag long enough for the platform cancel to work, it is was 1 frame longer (dealt 12%) then it would work.
I don't know of any list, although I'd be surprised is someone hasn't made one.
There is 0 chance of falcon's dair working, it's way too slow. Generally it's gotta hit on like frame 3 or 4.
You mention hitlag. Does that mean you have to land the attack in order for it to cancel?
Yes
I platformed canceled Ganons Uair yesterday
That would only work on a descending platform.
I did it on Yoshis story. I don't know how I did it as I'd only done it with Falcos bair before. Maybe it has something to do with me using the 20xx pack, but I can assure you, it did happen
Were you using the save state feature? If so I find that if you are in the air, use a save state that warps you to the ground, and then grab and throw an opponent, you end up in the air for a brief moment. If in that moment you tried to press down and up on the c stick then it is not unlikely your up air could have come out and you land on the platform. I'm not sure exactly what it is, but its probably something like that because it cannot be done normally even frame-by-frame.
random ones i remember working.
yoshis uair, luigis nair/bair (might be for all plumbers actually) marths fair shieks nair samus nair link nair and then theres like the descending platforms and then some others work, like falcos dair.
Don't know for sure cuz I didn't even know this was possible but Jiggs uair would probably work
That would never work, hits on frame 9 which is way too slow.
edit: oh yeah and both the puffballs have fixed ECBs. Meaning the bottom part of their ECB never moves from a set position, making this tech and a bunch of others impossible. DK is also cursed with this.
Nair and bair works for Luigi, bair works for Falco (but not Fox). Those are the ones I am sure of. I agree that a list of these moves would be cool.
I'm pretty sure I saw n0ned platform cancel a falcon down air in one of his matches recently (maybe against kage? I forget, not able to search for it right now)
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Fuck it, I made a list:
char | aerial | size of window
link upair 1
link nair 2
luigi nair 2
luigi bair 1
mario nair 1
marth fair 1
samus nair 1
yoshi upair 1
sheik nair 1
falco bair 1
y.link nair 1
Formatted as a table:
marth's dair does as well i believe
Only on descending platforms.
Although there is this thing, which is a pretty much the same tech, how it uses hitlag and the frame 10 ECB update. It works because marth falls slower when slipping off the edge then when he drops through a platform.
Nice, thanks for this.
The wiki specifically mention Falcon's up-air. Can it not be cancelled?
Only on a descending platform. It lifts the ECB quite a bit, but hit on frame 6 is pretty slow, and falcon has a high fall speed.
They also use marth's dair as an example of the ECB moving downward. His dair lifts the ECB in the first 5 frames. It is only at a lower point then before the aerial on 1 frame (frame 7), every other frame it is above. The move can't be platform cancelled not because of it's ECB pattern, but because it's too slow.
The advantage and disadvantage section make zero sense as well.
Is drop canceling a different technique than an aerial interrupt? Both seem to involve the concept of an ECB shift causing a landing.
They are pretty different.
An AI is an effect of certain aerial ECB patterns. Samus' upair for example, shifts the ECB high upward on frame 1, then moves down on frame 3 and 4. The change on frame 3/4 is so drastic that even when travelling upward, the bottom of the ECB will be at a lower point then the previous frame. So positioning the upair so the ECB is just above a platform on frame 1/2, will cause it to moves downward onto the platform and trigger landing.
A platform cancel (drop cancel), is an effect of the frame 10 ECB update. A bunch of different actions involving air movement cause the bottom of your ECB to be in a locked position (at the Base Position Star), for 9 frames (with a couple exceptions). When it isn't locked,the ECB is always above the BPS and will follow various patterns. Dropping from a platform is one of these actions and so you will always be below the platform for the first 9 frames. However this countdown does not stop when you enter hitlag, so throwing out a move fast enough will have you freeze in place whilst the ECB updates, and conforms to whatever position it should be in. If the update put the bottom of the ECB above the platform, you will land after hitlag.
There are a lot of different things that can determine whether an aerial is capable of being platform cancelled. Yoshi's upair works mostly because the ECB pattern on the hitbox frame has the bottom of the ECB shifted quite high up. Luigi's nair has a 2 frame window, because it's quick and he is very floaty.
Both techs are influenced by ECB patterns, but for different reasons.
Wouldn't ICs dair work?
Nah the ECB isn't high enough, this mostly because of how short they are, their ECB is always close to their base position.
That makes sense. So basically because of their size none of their aerials will drop cancel?
Pretty much. It is not the only reason though, it's just that the only fast aerial (it needs to be fast to put you in hitlag quickly), doesn't raise up enough, and considering their height, it would need to raise pretty drastically in relation to their body.
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Why does Link's up-air platform cancel but YLink's can't?
This is actually quite interesting. Both character's have the same fall speed and their upairs both hit on frame 5. So their Base Position Star (right at the bottom of their character) will be at the exact same position when the aerial hits.
Both characters have a near identical upair ECB pattern, but of course Y.link's is just a smaller version of it. This is the problem though, as because adult link is taller, his upair ECB pattern is higher above his BPS then y.link's.
This disappoints me. Platform cancelled up-airs would be amazing for YLink's combo game.
does whether you drop with a normal drop or a shield drop effect these windows at all?
Nope
sckwdit
im gonna learn shield-drop platform cancel nair as sheik
wish me luck schmoob <3
Go get em cowboy!