Source
r/metanarchism•
[deleted]

Asking Sync0pate to Step Down

In the last few days, Syncopate has acted against the wishes of the community and all other moderators. He has already demodded two moderators without any discussion whatsoever. He also removed mod permissions from most of us, without even informing us of it. He deleted a ban thread yesterday, for absolutely no reason.

He is currently the top (active) mod. And right now, as a mod, I feel as if we are all in a position where either we do exactly what he says, or we get demodded without even a discussion.

I'm okay with him remaining a mod, but he should not be the "top mod" any longer. I made this proposal because I've seen several comments already expressing this sentiment, and I share that sentiment.

People can vote on this if they want, but ideally, Syncopate either changes his moderating style immediately, undoes the actions he has done in the last few days, or he steps down willingly. If he steps down, I will resend an invitation to be a mod, just not the "top mod."

Posted Mar 26, 2015, 4:27 PM UTC

0240
flaxrabbit🐰•

Abstain for now.

I'm pretty shaken and upset by all of this. More than I feel I really should be about an Internet forum. So, I'm going to step away from this for a few days, and maybe partake in some of that gift economy weed I was talking about in that other thread. I'm hoping it will lower my stress levels, and let me come back with a clearer vision of what to do.

7
Vindalfr•

I'll be honest, I might be done with this place for the last time... So a break is probably in order for me as well. If we were geographically closer, I'd smoke you out myself.

1
Capn_Blackbeard•

Honestly, I hope neither of you leave. Take a break for a while and recharge the batteries but this community would be poorer without you.

2
sapiophile•

Agreed 100%. Solidarity and strength to all the Good Peeps that make this a great community.

Take the time you need in order to not burn out (seriously - this is extremely important). But please, do come back!

2
Vindalfr•

Aye aye.

2
APartOfSomething•

Naw they are cool. Keep doing stuff u/sync0pate I trust you.

6
sync0pate•

Cheers. I do my best.

1
Occupier_9000•

Please don't step down. The forum will be irreversibly taken over by the hipster clique.

1
-Enkara-•

He also removed mod permissions from most of us, without even informing us of it.

Really?

5
flaxrabbit🐰•

This is all of the info in the mod log about permission changes. http://i.imgur.com/D4d4NbH.png

6
sync0pate•

Those are all the permissions?

-2
flaxrabbit🐰•

Those are all of the permission changes for metanarchism I see when I view it.

5
The_MermaidAnarcha-Feminist Mermaid 🌺•

No they're not. Some people's names say "full permissions," and mine has a list of permissions.

2
sync0pate•

Hang on, I'll see if I can fix it.

EDIT: now?

I think the only thing you didn't have access to was the config, which is just CSS and flair.. Oh wait.. was this because you were setting flairs on vote threads, or was that someone else?

-1
sync0pate•

Really?

No.

2†
The_MermaidAnarcha-Feminist Mermaid 🌺•

Yes. I wanted to reinstate you as a moderator on Meta, but I can't. He removed those permissions from me. If you check the list of permissions, most people don't have full permissions.

-1†
sync0pate•

This just simply isn't true.

0†
The_MermaidAnarcha-Feminist Mermaid 🌺•

Then can you reinstate my full permissions?

1
exiledarizona•

Oppose but we do have some stuff to figure out. We are probably not all on the same page and its a good idea to be at least on some level. I think Syncopates conservative you in terms of making sure people arent abusing the sub is good. I think the other view is good as well. These things just need to work together better.

If that makes sense.

5
sync0pate•

These things just need to work together better.

If that makes sense.

Makes sense to me, this is why I created the reboot threads to hopefully foster some discussion between opposing sides.

3†
_permafrost•

I proposed it in another thread so I'll support it here and leave the thread to speak for itself http://www.reddit.com/r/metanarchism/comments/30bjht/min_thamee_banned/cpradeu

5
Newbunkle•

Oppose as long as Enkara is given her mod position back and all mods stop going rogue on stuff - otherwise I abstain.

5
The_MermaidAnarcha-Feminist Mermaid 🌺•

I reinstated her.

4
HamburgerDude•

I think he had the right to remove the doxxing swiftly but perhaps he could have done it better overall though I've been here for years under different aliases and he isn't authoritarian I don't think. Maybe a two week hiatus from modding then get remodded? Plus if he steps down our robot will be our supreme leader. Perhaps that makes the most sense

5
sync0pate•

There's nixie and db0 between me and the bot. I also think db0 technically has ownership of the bot, then there's a bunch of semi-absent people..

1
RRRRRK•

Stand aside but learning towards support, though I would like to note that u/Sync0pate did provide reasons for deleting the thread, with which I can empathize because u/-Enkara- directly implicated me in upholding cisnormativity for requesting to minimize comments and add trigger warnings tagging those comments with how they violate the AOP (what the Hell??? u/-Enkara- I liked your behavior before now). I would like to note that as I write this, u/-Enkara- has had about a day and a half to answer my request for an explanation.

Here is u/Sync0pate 's reasoning for deleting the thread, which I did disagree with because I do not perceive accountability in u/min_thamee :

This is fucking ridiculous. This is bringing up stuff that has happened over multiple accounts to repeatedly try and hammer through a ban that has been voted against plenty of times.

The small amount of stuff you've referred to that min_thamee has done since the ban is saying that some MRA's have "fallen in with a bad crowd".. I don't see what the problem with that is? It's likely true..

The other things you've brought up are just moderation votes that you disagree with. I'm pulling this, for that reason.

http://www.reddit.com/r/metanarchism/comments/309cke/min_thamee_banning_thread/cpqszqx?context=3

@@@@@

Who steps up to replace u/syc0pate ?

5
-Enkara-•

with which I can empathize because u/-Enkara- directly implicated me in upholding cisnormativity for requesting to minimize comments and add trigger warnings tagging those comments with how they violate the AOP (what the Hell??? u/-Enkara- I liked your behavior before now). I would like to note that as I write this, u/-Enkara- has had about a day and a half to answer my request for an explanation.

If I implicated you I didn't mean to, min was talking about a specific few trans posts in which comments were removed where he believed there should have been trigger warnings instead for his personal education or whatever.

The problem is it's not really appropriate, people and OP are gonna see that shit in their new messages regardless. And given min's history and context I know he's not acting genuinely about the whole thing.

Long story short, I didn't really care for the trigger warning proposal but I don't think you're upholding cisnormativity. I probably could have quoted that post of min's better, sorry.

1
RRRRRK•

Thank you! :)

1
sync0pate•

Who steps up to replace u/syc0pate ?

that's the biggest problem with all this, if you ask me.

0†
Throwtherockback•

I will :3

-1
sync0pate•

It's tempting.

0†
sync0pate•

I demodded one of them (Vindalfr) for breaking reddit's rules on doxxing. We should all be doing this. If we don't then the admins will step in and I don't imagine that r/@ will be around for very long. There is zero room for discussion or hesitation on this point. Doxxing is totally unacceptable, whatever the context.

The second one was for the min_thamee thread. I demodded them, removed the thread, and sent them a message asking if we could talk about it and attempt to reach some kind of agreement on the situation.

I also reached out in mod chat to the other moderators and the other people who wanted min_thamee banned, to see if they wanted to discuss it.

At the moment, we can't have this discussion genuinely because everyone is too afraid to express their opinion for fear of being banned if they disagree, this has already happened to a ton of people.

I think it's a shame that this is all kicking off while we are trying to work together on some changes to moderation that are many times more important, and I hope that we can at least put this aside until that has been worked out, because I believe it can be of huge benefit not only to r/anarchism , but to much of reddit.

4
flaxrabbit🐰•

Doxxing is a separate issue. I support doxxing in certain circumstances and contexts. There has to be room here, because I don't agree with your stance at all. I also don't care about reddit rules anywhere near as much as I care about fighting fascism. There are certain contexts where if doxxing happened I would do everything in my power to make sure it stays up, and some contexts where I would actively promote it. I was clear about this in the thread that nominated me for mod.

As for discussion, we were discussing and you interfered with that. This is all "kicking off", because you decided that your point of view was correct and everyone else was wrong. In all of Min_thamee's ban threads a majority have voted to ban him. Now, of course our standard is not majority rules, but it is certainly indicative that Min_thamee is hugely controversial and repeated attempts to deal with him are inevitable.

3†
sync0pate•

There has to be room here, because I don't agree with your stance at all. I also don't care about reddit rules anywhere near as much as I care about fighting fascism. There are certain contexts where if doxxing happened I would do everything in my power to make sure it stays up, and some contexts where I would actively promote it.

Then we won't have a subreddit. I'd maybe agree with this, on other sites, but we can't do it here. If you say you are going to promote it and leave it up here then I will have to remove you as a moderator..

1†
flaxrabbit🐰•

I'm saying there exists circumstances where I would leave dox and promote it. Of course in most cases it would not make sense to put it on reddit, because it would piss off the admins more than any good it would do. There are some circumstances, such as the Stratfor leak, that I would treat otherwise.

Another example might be Justine Tunney's reddit account. She was called out many times, and people pointed out who she was. That was a type of dox. I support calling Justine Tunney out, because she has said some pretty wild shit that affects a lot of anarchists.

So, demod me if you must. I'm just stating that the issue isn't as black and white.

I should also note that I've spoken publicly about my support of calling out fascists and how I think Reddit enables fascist organizing in public with Reddit admins in the audience. So, I guess I'm saying it is who I am, and I can't really change that.

4†
sync0pate•

No, that's cool. I agree. We just can't leave doxxing on here or say that we are going to.

I also think it's tragic that reddit is such a great platform for fascists, not to mention the endemic racism, misogyny and homophobia.

I'm hoping we can do something to clear that up, in some subreddits at least.

2†
The_MermaidAnarcha-Feminist Mermaid 🌺•

Flaxrabbit is allowed to express an opinion. As long as they never dox anyone, I don't mind them expressing an opinion on the issue.

And again, this is what I'm talking about. "Agree with me or get demodded."

3†
sync0pate•

Agree with me or get demodded.

Agree with the reddit admins or get demodded. I don't know how much clearer I can make it that this has nothing to do with my personal views on the subject.

5†
The_MermaidAnarcha-Feminist Mermaid 🌺•

I don't have anything against you personally, I just think you are being too authoritarian towards the rest of the mods. I feel like my hands are tied, and I'm sure the rest of us feel the same way. You've been a mod for 4 years, and you should probably stay a mod, but I don't think you should be the top mod anymore, because you are abusing it.

I don't know much about the Vindalfr situation, but again, there was no discussion, you just demodded him. If he legitimately doxxed someone, I don't blame you. That being said, there was no excuse to demod Enkara.

I have a counter-proposal: You asked us to lay off of Min_Thamee for a while in return for Enkara being reinstated, which I actually already did. If you agree to step down and serve as a lower level mod, I'll be happy to give Min_Thamee another chance.

0†
Capn_Blackbeard•

If you agree to step down and serve as a lower level mod, I'll be happy to give Min_Thamee another chance.

The problem with a trade like that is either you believe Min deserves a ban or you don't. If you are willing to trade your belief for something you want then you are kind of implying that meta process doesn't matter as much to you as getting something you want.

I mean, if Sync doesn't agree to step down are you suddenly not willing to give Min another chance? And what really changed there? Nothing Min did or didn't do. Just that in one case you didn't get a bargain you wanted.

6
zolfe•

It reads a lot like a play for power.

5
Hannibal_Lecturer•

Ding ding ding! That's exactly what this is.

4
The_MermaidAnarcha-Feminist Mermaid 🌺•

How so? I'm not going to be the top mod.

-4†
The_MermaidAnarcha-Feminist Mermaid 🌺•

I will clarify. Syncopate asked us to lay off of min_thamee. And all of Syncopate's recent actions were related to Min_Thamee. So I offered that we could try to work something out with Min, but Syncopate should step down and stop fighting Min's battles.

0†
Capn_Blackbeard•

This doesn't appear to me to be fighting Min's battles.

Why would you try to "work something out with Min" if you feel that the community has decided to ban them? If the community speaks for something that should be how it goes. They aren't chips for bartering.

2†
APartOfSomething•

I don't think it's possible to be authoritarian on reddit.

2†
The_MermaidAnarcha-Feminist Mermaid 🌺•

I agree, I probably used the wrong word. Personally, I think he's being a huge asshole to the rest of us. Either we moderate his way, or we get demodded.

0†
APartOfSomething•

As long as the subreddit operates fine. I really don't care either way to be honest. Is Sync negatively effecting content on r/anarchism?

-1†
comradeoneff•

Too authoritarian for the other authorities! How sad!

2†
The_MermaidAnarcha-Feminist Mermaid 🌺•

If you have an issue with the moderators, bring it up in another thread. You're the third person who made that complaint, and yet none were willing to tell me exactly what their complaints are with the moderators.

-1
comradeoneff•

We don't have to play by your rules. If we feel discontent, we'll express it in the means we want to, not in the way you want to. Shoo.

1†
sync0pate•

I don't know much about the Vindalfr situation, but again, there was no discussion, you just demodded him. If he legitimately doxxed someone, I don't blame you.

It was unfortunate, he quoted someone else that included personal information. It was hardly malicious on his part, but we don't have any breathing room on this. Honestly, I'd prefer if it hadn't happened.

I'm not voluntarily stepping down right now, I want to work on the other things we've been talking about. When I do step down, there's no way in hell I'm going to continue moderating.. it's hardly fun.

Oh, and also, don't worry, I don't take any of this personally. On a personal level I have absolutely no problem with you either and I hope we can continue working together on some stuff.

0†
The_MermaidAnarcha-Feminist Mermaid 🌺•

Will you voluntarily step down if the majority want you to?

Here's how I see it. Most of the mods have one set of ideas of how to improve the subreddit. You have a different set of ideas that conflict with ours. But because you are the top mod, we can't implement the types of changes that we want, which have a lot of community support.

I'm not sure why you're reluctant to give up the top spot.

0†
sync0pate•

Most of the mods have one set of ideas of how to improve the subreddit. You have a different set of ideas that conflict with ours.

They're not my ideas, I try as much as I can to keep my personal bias out of it. Obviously it's impossible to do perfectly, but I try.

The problem is that there is a group of moderators who want to make a set of changes -these changes are often at odds with what I perceive that the community wants, and through steadily banning everyone that disagrees, the group of mods is exercising more and more influence.

0†
zolfe•

I just think you are being too authoritarian towards the rest of the mods.

The irony of an r/anarchism mod using the "you're authoritarian" argument in this situation is hilarious.

-1†
lilit_•

If you don't understand the word irony or the reddit mod hierarchy then yes, you are correct

3
zolfe•

Most of the mods here laugh if a non-mod calls them authoritarian and then rant about the structure of reddit and how it's just a Internet forum. That's why I found it hilarious that a mod is calling a higher-up mod authoritarian hilarious.

6
-Enkara-•

Here follows some brain droppings and assorted grievances of mine:

The unspoken reality of the situation is that one of Sync0pate's roles as top mod is to sit in the top mod position and be trustworthy, because of the annoying way Reddit does mod hierarchies.

I've been disturbed by the way Sync has unilaterally just done mod-policing shit without consulting folks beforehand. And even when discussing things in modmail it's hard not to notice the "this is how it's gonna be" undertone, I don't know how much of that is truly attributable to Sync's actions and how much of that is just systemic reality seeping it's way into every little thing, but I've witnessed enough of the former to not be happy about it.

One example is when some moderators were engaging with trolls in modchat excessively, the way in which Sync put their foot down in an absolutist manner felt really paternalistic to me (even though I agreed with the sentiment). Removing people's modmail privileges without consensus is pretty fucked.

When my ban thread for min_thamee got deleted, and I got a PM from sync to discuss it or whatever, I didn't respond because I don't see that there's anything to discuss, if min continues to stay they will continue to do what they do, they are incapable of or unwilling to change, that has been proven repeatedly for over a year, there is no middle ground. And if you're just going to remove the ban thread which was me self-moderating my actions in the first place (I was gonna just ban min for not heeding their warning, but decided against it, because people like sync are above me in the pecking order), then fuck yeah I'm just gonna ban him and make a stink, that kind of precedent can't stand.

I'm really disturbed that Sync can't see how min is continuing to apologize for MRA scumbags, shilling for, and directing people to r/femrabates is just that.

Also, a ban thread isn't made illegitimate because it includes a year's worth of meta drama relating to that consistantly trolley-as-fuck user.

EDIT: I can truthfully say I'd probably make bad horrible top mod for a subreddit like this, so part of the question in asking sync to step down is also who replaces sync as top mod, and would they be better or worse. In any case I just want to ban reactionaries and trolls like min without getting demodded and needing to fall back on dramarchism, most people want min gone and min deserves to be gone so why the fuck was this a big deal?

4†
sync0pate•

One example is when some moderators were engaging with trolls in modchat excessively, the way in which Sync put their foot down in an absolutist manner felt really paternalistic to me (even though I agreed with the sentiment). Removing people's modmail privileges without consensus is pretty fucked.

I'll concede that. It probably was a bit too far, and was done out of frustration. At the time I was receiving dozens of private messages complaining about the new moderators, and I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything in mod chat. It got to me. Sorry.

so part of the question in asking sync to step down is also who replaces sync as top mod, and would they be better or worse

This is why I'm still here, why I don't want to step down.

5†
Vindalfr•

I'll concede that. It probably was a bit too far, and was done out of frustration. At the time I was receiving dozens of private messages complaining about the new moderators, and I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything in mod chat. It got to me. Sorry.

Not to sound too fucking liberal, but there is a comfort to being able to face accusations directly. Mod and user alike.

2†
[deleted]•

I'm really disturbed that Sync can't see how min is continuing to apologize for MRA scumbag

link please

4
-Enkara-•

It was in modchat http://transparency.dbzer0.com/modchat/

I've seen plenty of people saying "why should we allow MRA apologism?" - well, personally, I don't think we should. I just haven't seen any MRA apologism from min_thamee whatsoever.

3
[deleted]•

that is something I agree with. I haven't seen MRA apoligism from min_thamee either, just failing to take as hard a stance as you wanted on a few issues. Now your taking issue with the head moderator of r/anarchism for not voting your way in a very controversial vote.

Why don't you add me to the list of people who you think are MRA supporters?

you might as well. I'm damn suprised I've lasted this long in r/anarchism to begin with.

3
-Enkara-•

¯_(ツ)_/¯

3
The_MermaidAnarcha-Feminist Mermaid 🌺•

That's my biggest issue, he's very paternalistic. He chose who can do mod mail and who can't. He chose to delete threads, and remove Enkara as a mod, without any discussion.

And now he's telling me he refuses to step down, even if the majority want him to. Which is a serious issue to me.

0†
Min_thamee•

And right now, as a mod, I feel as if we are all in a position where either we do exactly what he says, or we get demodded without even a discussion.

Welcome to how non mods feel about you.

2†
The_MermaidAnarcha-Feminist Mermaid 🌺•

No, most people don't feel that way about me. A small group do. That being said, if you have a problem with the way I moderate, you can always address it in a thread. Like I did, with Syncopate.

4†
fuckspeciesism•

You can add me to the list of people who know what it feels like to have mods do things to them without their consent.

I'm an anarchist, an (I think) generally friendly person, but honestly I'm afraid to speak here. Enkara is definitely power tripping. You don't have to believe me, but it's not just a small group of trolls who are uncomfortable with people who enjoy playing the cop role a little too much.

(Even saying that makes me wonder if I'll have a ban thread for cop jacketing waiting for me!)

-1†
The_MermaidAnarcha-Feminist Mermaid 🌺•

I do feel bad about the whole incident with you last week. The whole cyberstalking incident really freaked me out, and I became a bit paranoid.

3
statut0ry-ape•

What are you afraid of?

I dunno if I've just been lucky or what, but I've never had any issues with the mods here, nor have I really seen much drama outside of people posting sexist/racist/whatever-ist shit then getting mad when they get banned.
Even when I first found this place when I was supporting AynCrap shit and made a lot of dumb comments I never had issues with the mods.

1
fuckspeciesism•

What are you afraid of?

(Even saying that makes me wonder if I'll have a ban thread for cop jacketing waiting for me!)

Plus the IRL death threats and doxxing that Indignantary and Punkswithcleankitchens have been doing apparently.

from needstrangersadvice to r/metanarchism/ sent 2 days ago

I don't know what is happening on y'alls end of things, but the responses to u/unravellingfallacy are entirely out of line. I find it incredibly distasteful/disappointing/.... (I lack words)

It's pretty clear who the extreme responses are coming from, and thus who is most likely doing the actual doxxing and actual IRL death-threats. I obviously can't prove that claim, but I'm really uncomfortable with punkswithcleankitchens and indignantary not even being warned for their entirely unnecessary (and incredibly violent) rhetoric/threats.

The liberal definition of copjacketing I've seen people use to try to ban others is enough to feel unsafe here. Would you want someone in power to take everything you say in the worst possible interpretation? I don't need that stress.

2
boilerpunx•

Just you and the rest of the free speech crusaders.

3†
burtzev•

Very much. Very, very much.

-4
Vindalfr•

I'm not gonna say that I know exactly what's going on... it is unfortunately impossible to properly substantiate everything in the OP, since there's no available log of who changed permissions when.

However, I can speak to this.

He has already demodded two moderators without any discussion whatsoever.

I was the first of the two removed without discussion. I'll let events speak for themselves:

First this happened.

I went about my life until a day or so later, I had noticed I had been removed from the mod list... So, I asked about it. Here's the comment that u/emma-_______ linked to in that screenshot.

I don't really have any specific comments about this right now, I'm just tired.

2
sync0pate•

I absolutely had to remove you as a moderator when I saw that, but I really do apologise for not messaging you directly. I honestly thought I had, sorry.

Also, shouldn't there be an entire log of who changes permissions?

6
Vindalfr•

To be completely honest, I don't exactly fault you, but I do have some criticism of how you've gone about doing things over the past few weeks.

I'm just not satisfied with what my current choice of words would be.

6
Capn_Blackbeard•

Also, shouldn't there be an entire log of who changes permissions?

Well, you can always click the mod log when you are a mod but if someone demods you obviously that option goes away.

5
Bong_Hits_4_Bakunin•

Oppose, sync0pate has been a mod here for 4+ years, if you have some grievance with them and are unable to resolve it between yourselves you should both step down.

2†
The_MermaidAnarcha-Feminist Mermaid 🌺•

My issue with them is not personal, I am criticizing their moderation style. I won't step down unless that's what the community wants.

1
statut0ry-ape•

Sync said he refuses to step down, even if the community wanted it...

1†
dbzer0Student Council Extraordinaire•

I'm mostly inactive from met@ stuff so I'll abstain, but normally I'd oppose. I've never seen sync acting without good reason and while power can corrupt, I don't think this is it. Rather, people need to remember that the top mods, and especially the top mod are always getting PMed by various aggrieved users making their case in private so that they can sway them. I've been there and it's the shit system we have to live in. Every time someone got sanctioned in met@, I would get PMs asking me to reverse it, or asking me to reason with people, or telling me that the community was acting oppressively or whatever.

I don't know if sync did something wrong, but even if they did, keep that kind of background in mind.

2
[deleted]•

oppose. This is begginning to smell like a lynch mob

2
burtzev•

Oppose.

1†
spunkgun•

Support Sync0pate stepping down.

1†
sync0pate•

Who would you recommend to replace me? Just let it fall to nixie?

0†
lilit_•

Put vindalfr right below you, demod nixie, step down

Imo

4
lilit_•

Alternatively, demod everyone, mod atpl, step down

I got plans for days

2
Cosmic_Insurrection•

Highly support.

1†
sapiophile•

It does definitely sound like Sync has made some pretty nasty moves that defy the necessary openness and justice of these subs. I feel like at the very least they should step back in a big way for a while, but I also feel that they shouldn't be a mod in general, at this point. Perhaps they could get re-modded to be lower on the list (I would stand aside on such a proposal).

Also, Sync is only the top mod here on met@ - on /r/@ we'd still have negroyverde, who is rad. And if we actually need to (sure hope we don't), r/met@ is really easy to replace with a new sub if we need to, which is something that /r/@ is not. So that may be a reasonable option, at least in the continuing interim if Sync absolutely refuses to cooperate. EDIT: Check it - r/metaanarchism, u/dbzer0 can hold that place down all good-like.

Support.

1†
homerr•

Oppose.

1