Sneak Attack on Spells and Metamagic Question
Alright, first of all let's take this Jason Bulmahn on Sneak Attack into consideration. Sneak attack is not additional damage, it is part of the damage roll, as per cited by a lead designer. This is all fine and dandy if you're stabbing and slicing things with your daggers, swords, or weapon of choice.
The question comes up however when you're mixing a sneak attacker with spells, such as an Arcane Trickster.
What happens when you fire a Scorching Ray that's affected by Metamagic such as Empower Spell?
For the sake of an example, let's say that the Scorching Ray would deal 4d6 + 3d6 Sneak Attack damage. If it's Empowered, do you increase by 50% just the 4d6, or the entire 4d6+3d6? To me the way Empower Spell is worded is enough to rule that both get multiplied, as Sneak Attack could be considered a bonus to that roll, and they're certainly variable and numeric. If this doesn't make sense because Sneak Attack is some sort of 'extra', what about Jason Bulmahn's post? If it's part of the damage roll, then the Scorching Ray effectively deals 4d6+3d6 damage instead of just 4d6, and it would make sense to multiply everything.
I don't see something like Intensified Spell affecting Sneak Attack damage, but Maximized Spells should also affect Sneak Attack.
Much confuse wow. Halp pls.
Posted Apr 15, 2015, 5:04 PM UTC
The sneak damage is "part" of the damage role the exact same way that flaming on a flaming sword is. A damage roll can (and often does) have multiple components.
The reason that Jason's post was neccesary is that if sneak attack was NOT a part of the damage roll(but happened after it) and someone resisted all non-sneak damage, sneak attack would do nothing.
Metamagic doesn't alter sneak attack any more than vital strike with a flaming sword, either--just because it's part of the damage roll, doesn't mean that it is what's getting modified.
Oh, and by the way, You don't need Arcane Trickster 10 to put sneak dice on spells. Any spell with an attack roll that deals hit point damage(Such as Scorching Ray, for example) can also have sneak attack tacked on, as long as you meet all the normal requirements. Suprise Spells just lets you apply sneak on ALL (hit point damage) spells, at ALL ranges (Yes, even the long range ones).
And yes, this means that your 1d3 cantrips with attack rolls can nab sneak attack as well.
While we're on the topic: by RAW since any effect that allows an attack roll is considered a "weapon", held touch spells can benefit from vital strike, weapon focus/specialization, make Attacks of Opportunity, etc, as well, since they are considered a weapon the same way natural attacks and monks are.
Relevant rules that allow this:
"Touch Attacks: Touching an opponent with a touch spell is considered to be an armed attack"
(In the Attack action section) ""Armed" Unarmed Attacks: Sometimes a character's or creature's unarmed attack counts as an armed attack. A monk, a character with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, a spellcaster delivering a touch attack spell, and a creature with natural physical weapons all count as being armed (see natural attacks)."
Now this brings us to a strange final addendum: Some take This statement to mean that touch spells aren't considered weapons for these style of effects, but if we look at Produce Flame we can see that it isn't a touch spell and has special rules for delivery--Therefore, it doesn't actually apply to the "Are spells weapons?
Pretty sure you can't use vital strike with a held charge. Even if you're using an attack roll to deliver it.
Relevant rules: "Touch Attacks: Touching an opponent with a touch spell is considered to be an armed attack and therefore does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
"Holding the Charge: If you don't discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round." (same link as previously, just a little further down).
"Armed" Unarmed Attacks: Sometimes a character's or creature's unarmed attack counts as an armed attack. A monk, a character with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, a spellcaster delivering a touch attack spell, and a creature with natural physical weapons all count as being armed (see natural attacks).
"All weapons deal hit point damage"
Vital Strike: "When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage. Roll the weapon’s damage dice for the attack twice and add the results together before adding bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities (such as flaming), precision-based damage, and other damage bonuses."
Here is an example of a weapon that deals fire damage base instead of slashing, piercing, or bludgeoning.
Here is a FAQ stating that you can take feats like weapon specialization: Ray to boost damage of rays, as an example of a spell acting like a weapon for the purpose of feats.
The exact mechanism for this would require you to cast a touch spell that dealt HP damage (such as vital strike), then to hold the charge until the following round. On round two, you make a standard attack action (modified by vital strike), and if it hits, you roll the weapon's (the spell) damage dice twice/three times/etc for vital strike tree.
I mean, sure, it's potent, but an improved vital strike's 10d6 intensified shocking grasp would do an average of 105 damage to one target, taking 2 turns to do it, and allowing a save for half damage (52). A level 11 barbarian with the beast totem rage line (for pounce), 20 base str, a greatsword, and power attacking would do 28 damage per attack for 3 attacks per turn (168 if all 6 hit, 56 if only the first per round hit.)
Yes, I'm aware a Rogue with a wand of Scorching Ray and no Arcane Trickster levels gets Sneak Attack damage when applicable :). The difference is of course, the capstone lets you do things like Sneak Attack on a Fireball.
scratches head I mean... I kiiiiiinda see it, but at the same time... All variable and numeric effects, including bonuses to those dice rolls. If Sneak Attack is, but isn't, part of the damage roll, isn't it just a bonus? I mean, I'd presume the Sorcerer Bloodline that lets you add Xd6 or something to certain damaging spells would also be multiplied, since it's a bonus to the damage dice, as would static bonuses (such as the Orc Bloodline's extra damage to certain spells).
Moreover when Surprise Spells actually comes into effect, Sneak Attack goes along with the spell's damage enough that it's halved on a successful save... Maybe normal instances of Sneak Attack spells don't get affected by metamagic, but instances of Surprise Spells kicking in do? Like, I wouldn't get Empower Spell affecting SA during a Scorching Ray, but it would if I'm using SA on a Fireball? Ugh, much confuse.