Source
r/leafs•
Seffer

Why the Leafs should draft Noah Hanifin

If we were given the chance i think we should take the large talented defensemen over strome or marner. I think he would do more for our team long run than marner or strome. We have seem enough leaf teams to see what is wrong with teams with all offense and weak defense. I've seen it for almost two decades. I think building our team around our defense is much more stable and successful than forwards only. I think good teams have one good dman. Great teams have 2. Pronger and Niedermayer, stevens and niedermayer, keith and Seabrook, Lidstrom + anyone with some talent. Doughty and Pietrangelo are surrounded by a number of very good dmen. I think our team needs to head in a new direction preaching defense and a tight and punishing defensive system that focuses on puck possession. I think at the very least it will help us get into the playoffs regularly. I think Hanifin rather than Strome or Marner will bring us closer to success. Forward talent is much easier to come by than defensemen.

*Edit because apparently I'm retarded trying to type with my phone.

Posted Apr 20, 2015, 9:10 PM UTC · edited

17126
-EdmondDantes-•

I think at this point you have to trust our scouting department and their belief in who is the best player available. We will have our pick of whoever is available between the 3 of Marner, Strome, and Hanifin after Pheonix makes their pick. I personally would be happy with either Strome or Hanifin regardless of what happens. I think Marner is great, but I'm either taking a potential franchise 1D or 1C with size. If management truly believes that Marner is a better bet as a successful 1C over Strome, than by all means make that pick. None of us are professional scouts who watch these players all season, and rankings are just rankings. Last year we were all set on Nikolai Elhers (who also turned out to be a stud), but we can all say we're happy we got Nylander.

23
Born_Ruff•

I think at this point you have to trust our scouting department

What scouting department?

9
SefferOP•

I'm happy with whoever as long as it is a successful pick. I just think hanifin might be the best choice for the leafs because he had all the tools to become the rock to rielly's style. Mo can go all out on his line them hanifin comes in and changes the game style and makes it harder for opponents to adapt to our versatile and dangerous d core.

4
breakfast4supper•

I agree with everything here. I'm going to be on board with whoever we pick but I am hoping its either Strome or Hanifin

3
NocturnalWiji•

Pretty much agree with everything you said.

You should copy/paste this every time another one of these threads is created honestly.

1
enviousofall•

You made me bust a gut laughing with your first sentence. I would not trust Leafs scouting if they wanted to draft Connor McDavid. If you look at their history of drafting Ontario players it's horrendous. Only their European scouts and the odd French scout have found good talent for them.

1
ruff25•

I think you take Strome or Marner at 4. I don't wanna sound like Grapes here but both those kids idolized the blue & white growing up. That's who this franchise needs to build around. In a deep draft such as this one you can grab a defenseman later in the order who may still end up as good as Hanifin.

10
Elmononymous•

You don't make draft decisions based on not wanting to hear what don cherry has to say about it.

We have a chance here to put together one of the best defensive pairings in the NHL - these types of dmen play half the game. We should be able to flip Kessel for a future #1 centre or next year we won't have a very good year either and can go after a #1C then.

Hanafin is the unquestionably the top defenseman in this draft - I've read some scouts say that of Hanafin was available last year - he may have gone ahead of ekblad.

Don't let McDavid and Eichel down play just how incredible of a defensemen Hanifin is.

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the-face•

We will not be able to flip Kessel for a 1C we are sellers and he is coming off a terrible season (for him). His contract is huge and he is known to at least have some problems with coaches teammates training etc. I'm sure the media here exaggerates those things but it still makes other teams think.

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Elmononymous•

Phil Kessel would make more money as a UFA than he is currently making.

A proven top 5 scorer in the NHL had better fetch us an unproven prospect with the potential to one day be a #1 centre.

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the-face•

Sorry I thought you meant a current 1C. Not a prospect with the potential to be one. I agree he would fetch that and more

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UPSET_GEORGE•

Where did you read that some scouts would have taken him above Ekblad? I'm very skeptical of that.

1
ruff25•

My point is that the pressure that comes with playing in Toronto is synonymous with appreciating the history of the brand, despite the current lack of a culture or identity. Leafs should build a team with GTA product (Lievo, Brown) so kids growing up in the GTA can identify with and rally around them.

Phil isn't getting flipped for a number 1 centre. You draft a #1C with top picks (say, I dunno, around #4)

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UPSET_GEORGE•

I completely agree. I think it's better for the team if you have guys that understand the passion of the fans. Guys who grew up in the GTA are usually the guys that want to be here the most.

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SefferOP•

Hockey players love the blue and white all the time but very few actually join our team when the time comes. I don't see why the leafs should feel loyal to leaf fans who become hockey players when the hockey players grow up loyal to the team they are playing for.

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Born_Ruff•

Being a fan of a team really has no relation to how successful somebody is going to be on that team. It would be dumb to pick someone based on that.

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[deleted]•

[deleted]

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the-face•

Instagram pictures of him with leafs gear on as a kid although his parents might have just been fans and dressed him. He's from the gta though so people assume. Strome has admitted to being a leafs fan though and I'd take him over marner although not by much

5
bifteksupernova•

Use the second first round pick to grab a Dman. I said this yesterday, only four defense in the top twenty so grab one of the VERY talented forwards in the top five. After the first twenty there are five or six more defense so get one then

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SefferOP•

i mean if we do something like Strome/Marner + Kylington i'm okay with that too....

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WAB91•

Although I think it'd be great for the Leafs to have another top defenseman to play with Reilly, they need a #1C. Its been the most obvious hole in the roster. Trading for one would cost a ton and the Leafs are not in a position to be giving up much (ie prospects, picks,) and I doubt any of the players we would trade would be able to amount to getting a #1C in return.

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SefferOP•

We won't stop being terrible overnight so we can draft a number one c another time imo.

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WAB91•

Yeah but this is a deep draft and also theres a lot of centers this draft, to me at least that is the teams priority. Its gonna be Strome or Marner depending on who Arizona picks.

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SefferOP•

I'm not convinced drafting either one over hanifin will be the best scenario. I honestly think that getting hanifin will allow us to push our time line properly to get nylander rielly and hanifin and the next two picks up to speed as forwards. Hanifin and rielly should peak around the same time as the next wave of forwards incl nylander. If it goes right nylander peaks at 23 to 25 like most forests and then keeps consistent production while rielly and hanifin peaks at around the same time at 24 to 25 and we will have top 5 pick forwards at 23 and 22 where they will be peaking as well and we will have a window of contention for at least 5 years when they are all in their prime. Of course that is a lot of speculation but i think it would be the most ideal scenario since i figured we will not get mcd.

1
0lwm1•

The thing is looking at next year's draft there isn't nearly as many top tier c's. Heck I think the first centre (besides Matthews but he will be in one of the lottery slots) is ranked 8th. This is the year to take a C.

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NO_NAME_BRAN•

I'm still baffled at how Dallas got away with stealing a two 1C's.

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jeffprobst•

Still didn't make the playoffs though. The west is nuts.

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Leavesofblue•

Why not a Defensemen and Strome/Marner?

I agree the Leafs, or any team really, should focus on the back end out. However with the likes of Columbus, Philly, and possibly New Jersey willing to swing their 1st's for immediate help, I'd propose drafting Strome or Marner, and then dealing either Kessel, Phaneuf etc for a top 10 pick to draft Defensemen Ivan Provorov.

This kid can flat out play. 6' 201 lbs and lead rookie scoring in the WHL on Brandon. He was 4th in scoring for all Dmen with over a point per game (15-46-61pts 60gp). He's also had a strong playoffs thus far and could easily turn out to be a steal in the 7th-9th spot.

There's no doubt the Leafs need to sure up their Defense to compete in this League and with a move like this at the deadline we would have 2 highly touted prospects joining or forward and D pool.

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SefferOP•

I don't play in draft day ifs and deals. Draft days are nightmares. Traded rask for nothing. Traded up for schenn. Traded up for biggs. Ya I'm not a big fan of our record. I rather keep our picks and give them to bergmann

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MoBizziness•

that was before the philosophy change though

i really hope

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john_mernow•

the leafs were playing miley cyrus as the getting pumped song. i think for a philosophy change they should play achy breaky heart instead. yoy ?

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SefferOP•

Yea but you see. I've been through this before and I'm not sold like everyone else.

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nesuahoduesp•

I highly doubt this management group is going to make the same mistakes again. Trading Kessel, Phaneuf etc. is not the same as trading away multiple picks, or prospects.

u/Leavesofblue is also arguing to trade players for picks, not the other way around.

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LuckMaker•

All the deals you mentioned were trading away picks, this time we would be trading for picks.

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SefferOP•

sigh. The cynical side of me is just like "what freaking picks will we get for an underachieving Phil Kessel and Dion Phaneuf". I HOPE WE PULL OFF SOME DEALS SO WE CAN TALK ABOUT SOMETHING FUN !!!

1
Omalley19•

Posted this earlier... Need to target a team like Philly with cap trouble... Take their bad contracts ( vinny, umberger, pronger). Give them kessel... Now we just took 3 bums and a bunch of money, gave you a potential 90 point 35 goal guy ( especially with giroux and voracek), what do we get in return? Start with 7th overall and keep on going....

1
SefferOP•

Sorry let me reply to you again since I misunderstood you the first time. I am a huge fan of something like Kylington + Strome/Marner since Kylington is my darkhorse 1st rounder! I think Provorov will be gone by the time we get on the board again.

I don't see why the other teams would trade for Kessel or Phaneuf especially for their high first. I suppose the Devils could realistically since they are looking to win with Schneider in goal so their window is only around with him and Kessel would solve their offensive woes. I don't think i can feel the same way about Carolina or Columbus though. In the end though, i hope we draft BPA and I'm just arguing that Hanifin could be BPA over the Strome/Marner love.

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TechWiz717•

Columbus is SIGNIFICANTLY better than their record indicates. They had like all their key guys injured throughout their season. Columbus is a team on the rise and a guy like kessel or phaneuf would definitely start to solidify their spot among the league's better teams. I don't see carolina trading their pick though.

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Omalley19•

I'd love to see this I think provorov is the guy to take as well though the size of hanifin or werenski is appealing. I think those 3 D are closer in potential than marner/strome are to the next best forwards. Philly is the best chance because the leafs can offer them a way out of their shitty ass contracts without hurting our future as they will be done by 2017. If we can walk away with 2 top 10s and a mid 20 in this draft that will make a lot of ppl happy with our new management. Kessel is worth easy phillies first and second if we take back his equivalent or more in salary bums, pronger isn't even playing and philly is gonna be over the cap.

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Omalley19•

Plus depending on who nj or Carolina likes we could potentially get hanifin and marner if played right. People like crouse and rantanen and provorov, so I could see hanifin or marner sliding.

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bboydfresh•

It could go either way, with it benefitting us.

So say we get Columbus's or NJ's pick, we pick at 6 or 7.

Say Arizona takes Strome. With the next pick, we could take Hanifin and with the 6th pick, we take Mathew Barzal or Mikko Ratanen (not sure he is a centre though)

Say Arizona takes Hanifin. It leaves us taking Strome, and with the 6th pick we could take Provorov. Either way, it's a win-win situation, and I don't mind either Strome, hanifin, or Marner.

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katamura•

nope.

strome or marner.

our 1st from nashville will be in the mid 20s where there are solid d-men (chabot, zboril, juulsen)

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SefferOP•

I rather take a chance getting a star dmen then another percy or gardiner which might not full fill or exceed their potential and become #1 dmen.

0
the-face•

Hanafin might not pan out either. In fact he's probably more likely a top 4 dman then a stud 1A. He's got the potential for sure but we are in desperate need for a 1C. No one in our organization is even close to being able to do that. At least rielly has a shot at being a stud. Plus plenty of great dman get drafted not very high. Subban weber Karlsson to name a few. We need that 1C more.

3
SefferOP•

Shrug or it could be like pietrangelo or doughty or pronger or mcinnis and that would be perfect to match with rielly. Marner or strome could turn out to be shawn Thornton and ribero but i hope not. Too hard to discuss with speculation with picks since no one wins until they prove themselves in the league. A 1d is more important than a 1c in my opinion and to my point why can't we find a 1c in the 2nd round like bergeron or krejci or use our layer 1st to find carter and Richards. It is too easy to speculate but i think we should take hanifin since a 1d is more valuable than a 1c. Let's count the number of 1d moved in my living memory. Pronger chara niedermayer. Can't think of any that were traded or got to free agency. Please refresh my memory of I'm wrong. For 1c and 1c prospects we see a couple just last year. Spezza, seguin, kesler, carter, richards before he sucked, b schenn. That is just in living memory. We just have not gotten one because we have no assets to trade for one or ever drafted a blue chip outside of this year or developed one with our "late firsts" that everyone imagines will be a star

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the-face•

With the exception of Seguin I don't consider any of those guys 1cs. And that trade is regarded as a massive mistake by Boston. I also think we have a future 1d in rielly. And I disagree that a 1d is more important as well. It's all opinion Of course we just have different views on what direction the team should go.

1
rossrhea•

All 3 of those defensemen were traded at least once. Chara even went to FA.

1
thedoctorkyle•

I don't think hanifin will be that great. I don't even think he will be the best D taken in the draft I'd prefer provorov much more he's certainly more dynamic. Hanifin to me lacks a wow factor something that sets him apart from the rest. Also I think it's far easier to hit a home run later in the draft when it comes to defensmen, Weber and Subban were each taken in the second round. Aside from Doughty (Ekblad by all accounts will be good but let's see) there hasn't been that many electrifying D take this high in the draft. Certainly some good players but I'd prefer a Strome or Marner because I think they will be better players.

5
SefferOP•

The draft is a crap shoot and you can't rely on stuff like o our 2nd will turn out like subban because that is just dreaming and living off false hope. Those are rare cases and the leafs do not have a very good staff. Our only successes so far have been nylander and rielly both taken in the top of the draft. Heck we had schenn at top 5 but look where he is as a player now.

0
thedoctorkyle•

Schenn is a prime of example of my fears. The leafs are actually pretty reasonable at drafting, the problem is that they've liked to trade prospects.

2
SefferOP•

ugh I hyped myself for Schenn so hard so I know the nightmare too but we can't be afraid just because we were burned once or we might never find the special one.

1
boomhauer86•

But...but...Don Cherry says to draft ontario boys

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SefferOP•

Lol ya i love Don too but we gotta think what would be best for the boys in blue and not in our hearts

1
boomhauer86•

No, I know. We have too many small players. Need size. If Strome is available at 4, take him. If not, Hanifin would be the next best choice

2
SefferOP•

Yea kadri kessel rielly nylander bozak. Our core is below average and we don't have the toughness to make up for the lack of size

2
Omalley19•

Kessel and bozak are as good as gone bud, they want a new start and so do the leafs, and they are actually worth something.

3
CharlottesWebster•

I don't think we really 'need' size. I'd take a team of undersized talented forwards, if it came down to it. I don't think size and toughness are the same thing. We certainly can't play scared and soft, but we don't need to be massive either. No one would call Pavel Datsyuk soft, and he's only 5'11".

1
Zoidberg22•

Someone brought up the point of defenseman taking longer to develop than forwards, and it makes more sense at the start of rebuild to get one, than a forward.

4
91Caleb•

bingo,

you want your prospects to mature at the same time.. its logical to select d first, although not while forgoing a better player.

In the case of marner/hanifin/strome, its basically a toss up so Dman makes logical sense under that philosophy

3
SefferOP•

I agree. Some forwards can step in and produce so we can take them with later drafts

3
Zoidberg22•

bpa.

4
SefferOP•

Agreed

2
FansTurnOnYou•

Personally I'm still way too traumatized from Schenn

4
paperfire•

Hanifin is no Schenn. Schenn always had weak skating, while Hanifin is one of smoothest skating defenceman we've seen in years. If you're thinking about the 2008 draft, think more like Doughty or Pietrangelo.

5
SefferOP•

Hanifin is leagues better than schenn

3
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
TheGursh•

Although I agree with your premise you can say the same thing about C's; as in you need at least two good ones to win. Kopitar and Carter, Toews and Sharp, Krecji and Bergeron, Crosby and Malkin. Right now the Leafs don't have a single C that is top 30 at their position. That just won't do.

3
SefferOP•

I agree. Our holes are deep but i think that hanifin be a better choice long run this year. We won't get out of the basement that quickly after all.

1
LeftieJamKeenly•

Okay so humour me. If we pass on one of the elite centres available in the top 5 this year, who do we draft as a centre in 2016? There isn't likely to be a centre in the next couple years who's even close to Strome or Marner. You don't win without centre depth, and we're more lacking at centre than we are on defense in my opinion.

2
BORT_licenceplate27•

I have no source to back this up, but I have heard that the 2016 draft is very defence heavy. so im agreeing with saying that the best option is Strome/Marner. get the elite center this year when the top 5 are very center heavy.

1
SefferOP•

I can't speculate for you since the draft is so far away but almost every year a number of can't miss center prospects will show up. I've been following the drafts for years and if are still terrible like we have been the past 3 years we will get a Centre prospect yay will not be add good but they won't be that far off either versus dmen who are harder to find draft and develop

0
CharlottesWebster•

I'd argue Kadri is one of the 30 best centers in the league. When you look at the fact that he's never played with his team's best wingers, his possession ability (elite), and his penalty differential.

1
Klinched•

I like the argument for Hanafin and it's tough to combat but to be fair we have stock in the defense department. We have Loov, Percy, Granberg, Valiev waiting in the wings to compliment Rielly and Gardiner. What hurts us the most are defensively responsible forwards who run a two way game. Our defensemen can only do so much in our zone.

Look at our "top line" getting hemmed in our own zone almost every single shift. Kessel - Bozak - JVR were a fucking train wreck defensivley. What I'm trying to say is Mitch Marner is probably our best choice and option in this coming draft. He's electric, full of energy, battles for the puck in all three zones, scores like a man possessed and is responsible in his own end. He's a natural center and played center in their recent playoffs.

2
SefferOP•

I don't feel the same way you do about our prospects. I feel like it is a deep hole with a number of middling prospects but no stars to be. We need a start not another 4567. we produce them at an incredible rate compared to the rest of the league but we need 1s and 2s. I don't see any of them and realistically rielly can't carry the defense himself and gardiner might just end up as a 3 or 4 on a contender. We can't have defensemen playing over their heads all the time or we will be the same leafs over and over again.

1
theboyblue•

I agree with you that we need defense. However, one of our biggest issues was lack of back check from our forwards not bad D.

I personally like Strome and Marner over Hanifin. My main reason is hanafin plays in the NCAA and it's known to not produce elite talent. Of course there are guys here and there like eichel. However, I wouldn't take that chance. I would take Marner. He's known to play both ends of the rink. And, he's a beauty offensively. His skill level is already looking elite. He plays kind of like Kane and giroux. I would really much rather have a guy that can play that way because we have never had a star of that calibre. We can still take a D later in the draft. However, I think we will take BPA even later in the draft so it just depends if there is a really good D then.

1
SefferOP•

I'm starting to warm up to marner because his defensive intensity is definitely something i want to see from our future stars. I still think hanifin will possibly provide some light in our darkest time line

1
theboyblue•

I think I like Marner better because I personally believe he is BPA at 4. I also believe he's what we need.

I just keep imagining a line of Marner, Kadri, Nylander and that just gets my juices going. That could become one of the best lines in the NHL because of pure skill/creativity. Kadri has never had that creative player to play along side with. Nylander AND Marner would both be that. The fact that Marner plays C also gives us the option of playing him at C if we have any injuries etc. Think about it, we have like 0 players in our top 6 that play multi-position roles. Every player is SET to that position. I blame coaching mostly, but, I think Marner would change that a bit and maybe our coaches will adapt that philosophy with some other players.

1
brobs•

Isn't it riskier drafting defenseman than forwards? Maybe we'll pick up a defender with our Nashville pick instead..

2
SefferOP•

Hanifin is a blue chip like doughty and pietrangelo. I don't think we will go wrong here.

2
FredPhelpsSr•

Hanifin is a blue chip like doughty and pietrangelo, but also like Lars Jonsson and Cam Barker. Not disagreeing, just showing the dark side.

2
SefferOP•

same with marner and strome, I'm just hoping we pick the right one.

2
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
RavenBlade87•

I trust their scouting and management. Listen to Dubas' interview today. It's clear they're going BPA at number 4 and focusing all their effort at hitting a home run with NSH pick. This would involve a heavy workload to address a need at that spot and/or trading up.

We are guaranteed Strome or Hanifin who are both franchise players at important positions. Marner projects very well and would also be an excellent fit and pick. The only difference is what identity does that player give your team and what you look for to build around them.

2
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
SefferOP•

Yea i respect their work but they have a terrible track record at finding stars.

1
RavenBlade87•

Umm... you just said the following:

A) I respect their work B) they have a terrible track record

o.0

1
SefferOP•

O.o i respect scouts for doing the hard work they do but management has a terrible track record and our picks are not exactly home run picks since Uh when was our last steal? Kaberle?

1
vanKessZak•

But we have all new management and fired all our scouts.

1
malabericus•

I actually agree with this. We have no trouble scoring goals

1
LeafsForLife1•

It's inconsistent scoring. Sometimes, the top line is on fire and no secondary scoring. Other times, only Kadri or lol Booth are hot.

I'm not against Hanifin or Marner. Strome seems like the odd man out to me, but they all seem like solid prospects.

3
malabericus•

Mhm yeah tough to go wrong at the end of the day

2
LeafsForLife1•

Lawson Crouse. Highly doubt they'll draft him.

2
SefferOP•

We never had trouble scoring goals in the pay couple decades. It was always or porous defense time after time. And year after year. We need to change that.

1
MasochisticLeafsFan•

Except for the past 5 months where we've had trouble scoring goals?

1
SefferOP•

You mean team train wreck?

1
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
thecrazyasscantonese•

Last time we "needed" a centre we ended up missing Galchenyuk and grabbing D. That didn't end up so bad last time.

1
UPSET_GEORGE•

I know anybody who mentions anything like this gets shit on and downvoted. But I think it would be better to take someone from the GTA. They know the buzz and passion that surrounds their organization more than the people not from around here. Those are the guys that Shanahan mentions of wanting to play here.

1
SefferOP•

If they are bpa... I'm okay with it

0
miggy_smalls•

There are two TOP 6 centers set to become UFAs this summer: Antoine Vermette & Mike Fisher.

Here is the list from last summer: Mike Ribeiro, Paul Stastny, Brad Richards.

The trade market has been a little better, with Ryan Kesler and Jason Spezza moving last summer.

You must draft this position!

1