By the look of Job advertising websites this country has a severe lack of recruitment consultants.
Why is every other graduate job for a recruitment company? Why do we need this many recruitment consultants?
Posted Apr 25, 2015, 9:42 AM UTC
450101
They're all candidates for the B Ark.
70
I wish I could upvote you some more. We're going to need a pretty big B Ark though.
13
I'm fairly sure the economic recovery would fit almost entirely in the B Ark. Recruitment consultants truly are the new telephone sanitizers.
6
This is surprising considering our massive surplus of mouthy cunts who blather on about nothing.
55
Who the fuck u callin mouthy u cunt
21
Shut up and find me a forklift driving position that pays a minimum of 15k per annum.
18
We have a junior entry level position perfect for you. Essential: 5+ years forklift driving experience.
43
Must have NVQ level 4 in Forklift Management.
12
i have one of them, average 22k, except i hve to do shitloads of hours cos the company doesnt pay any time and a half :( And a bad shortage of skilled drivers :(
3
And a bad shortage of skilled drivers :(
12
Yeah i'd want a bit more than £15 a year to step back into an flt. Wouldn't fancy returning to the shift patterns either.
1
its because the people doing the jobs, especially those running the firms, are twats of the first water, and as a result turnover is huge.
35
Can confirm. Used to work in the web department of a nasty recruitment company. Our office had 300% staff turnover per year, as the boss was such an arse to everyone.
The local temp agencies wouldn't deal with the company after a while as we got through so many secretaries. I can't remember if the record for one leaving was 4 hours or just 2.
Happily, the company is long gone now.
23
I don't suppose you can tell us some stories?
7
One highlight was the birthday of a woman who headed up the resourcers (staff who talk to candidates). She was in her 40s and the boss presented her with a very large, black rubber dildo. In front of the whole of head office.
On the one hand she was a very robust woman with a decent sense of humour. On the other... as she said herself, he was a walking employment lawsuit waiting to happen.
I still feel sorry for the handyman he tasked with going to buy this monster cock, he wasn't exactly expecting that in his job description.
8
I used to work for a sales recruitment agency, we had staff their over 10 years and everyone seemed happy including the clients and placement, ofcourse I think we were in the minority of decent agencies.
3
I work for an agency and we have around 8% staff turnover at group level. Some divisions in some locations can go a few years without losing people. We also have people that have been at the same place for 10 or more years.
3
It's good to know there are some decent to work for recruitment agencies out there.
1
This. Obviously we need more recruitment consultants to hire the recruitment consultants of the future.
26
You joke, but there are such things as rec-to-rec who recruit recruitment consultants, for recruitment agencies.
10
...and then we claw our eyes out.
18
That's genius! People can recruit for their own replacements when they want to leave. A big cycle where everyone wins.
5
A golden age for the recruitment business. One that shall never end.
2
Are there rec-to-rec-to-rec-to-rec who recruit rec-to-rec consultants for rec-to-rec agencies?
4
One would imagine so
1
I'm like 75% sure that's one of the signs of the apocalypse.
2
They're a pain in the arse, they're like vultures. We put so much as one job vacancy on our website or LinkedIn and we get a bunch of cold calls from them asking to speak to our MD (despite our number being on TPS).
I try to be nice when I can because it must be a shit job, and I don't mind if they actually listen when I tell them no we're not interested, but when they try to manipulate their way to our MD and avoid giving me any information or answering any questions I ask, that's what pisses me off.
"Good morning [my company]"
"[Cue noisy call center type background and the voice of someone obviously talking on a cheap headset] Oh hi could I speak to (managing director's name) please?"
"Can I just ask who's calling please"
"Yeah it's James from B.S Company, he's expecting my call"
"Mr M.D hasn't informed me he's expecting anyone's call today, can I ask what it's in regards to?"
"It's alright he knows me, it's just about the email I sent him"
"Right, so did Mr M.D actually acknowledge your email and arrange a time to call, or are you just following up on your email?"
"It's alright if he's busy I'll just call back another time. When's the best time to catch him?"
"I'm sorry but Mr M.D has a busy schedule, is it alright if I can take a message so I can ask him when a suitable time would be and call you back?"
"Yeah if you could just tell him James from B.S Company called, he'll know what it's about."
"Alright, will do." (Actually I'll google your phone number and company name, and if you're a recruitment agency or a dodgy company I've never heard of, I'll add you to our phone systems ignore list)
[Hangup]
19
What does your company do?
1
I work at a reasonably small IT company, so we get a lot of calls from IT recruiters.
3
IT recruitment is saturated and to a large degree broken. It's not representatives of the wider recruitment market.
6
I work in the same sort of company, and we get a ridiculous amount of those calls. The blacklist on our PBX is shockingly long.
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-8
I get the same. People call up my company's main public switchboard number and ask to be put through to me.
1
♫ I was looking for a job and then I found a job helping people looking for jobs, and heaven knows I'm miserable now...
14
If ever there was a career that should be systematically phased out by the internet age it's recruitment 'consultants' - seriously how much consulting goes on? It's an utterly empty, wasteful process.
11
Sadly, there is truth in this statement, because there are few true consultants out there, but there are many 'recruiters'; true consultants ask good questions, which uncover problems and underlying motives - they also coach both sides on getting to the goal: a fair offer for the candidate, which, if the process happened well - she will accept. True consultants work from a moral, ethical framework, which builds trust, versus working primarily from a profit motive. Fortunately, the market will weed out the 'empty, wasteful' firms, but it can give a bad name to the industry as a whole.
1
Depending on the organisation and the consultant and the role. A lot.
At the very senior levels appointments can take 6 months to a year. The consultants will become so involved that they will know the children's birthdays, the pets names, what foods they do and don't like. Its a very involved process.
0†
Individual companies often have their own internal recruitment department. Those people are useful and know what they're doing.
Third-party recruiters are worse than useless and almost a scam. They filter through websites for job postings and employee resumes, the same that employers and candidates can already do just as easily with Indeed. They know and care nothing about the employee or employer that isn't obvious from the resume or job posting. They just want to be middlemen and skim off some of the money.
3
I know that many companies have their own internal recruiters. Many are very good, but many many of them use external agencies as well. Only the biggest companies with the greatest scope can really get the best without using agency's.
You really do misunderstand the recruitment process and how agency's operate. Good ones understand their clients, I can talk all day about some of the organisations that I work alongside. Agencies can have a genuine positive impact upon businesses. Finding them the person who brings a failing contract back in line, finding somebody that spots an error that could have cost the business thousands, somebody who spots an opportunity for growth and delivers hundreds of thousands to the business.
Would companies often prefer not to use us ? yes of course they would, everyone would prefer not to have to spend money. But that's not different to not wanting to use external auditors or rely on business consultancies like KPMG.
0
I don't hate all recruitment consultants. Some are dead.
11
Some are just dead inside.
1
Also - a lot of so-called Recruitment "Consultants" are, in actual fact, Employment Agencies.
Very big difference.
10
What's the difference?
5
recruitment consultants 'work' for the company looking for workers. They should be head hunters for companies searching for qualified candidates, and should be paid by the company. Employment agencies essentially 'work' for the person who is looking for a job and match them with available opportunities. They get paid by skimming the wages of the workers they feed in to the company.
11
Can you give an example? Im not sure your definition is accurate.
1
It's not an accurate definition.
The person is mixing up a couple of different roles and functions. he's also mixing up temporary and permanent employment.
At its basis there are two types of recruitment consultants. You have in house, and agency.
Now in house consultants are often part of a HR team at a large company. They have multifaceted jobs, often primarily recruitment, but also some of the contract admin stuff, and other HR related functions. These people are directly employed by a company, and often sort through direct applicants, and also CV's sent from agency's. The role varies from company to company and person to person. Some companies advertise on their own, even pay subscriptions to a CV board or two. Others are purely an administrative function that gets CV's that are sent from agencies and collates them for hiring managers. There is of course every mix in-between those two extremes.
Now agency consultants work for an independent organisation. This is where the real differences can occur and perhaps where OP is getting confused. There are specialist firms, that work role by role on permanent or temp basis, and there are also general labour firms that have a load of people on the books. There is of course everything in between too, some companies (ie hayes, reed, ranstad) have very specialist desks, but also very generalist desks.
Agencies have a real mix of clients. The best consultants will often have a handful of businesses that they do most of their work with. Companies pay a % of a candidates salary to an agency for finding that candidate. (This varies greatly within markets, my sector, its between 10 and 15%, some sectors it can be as much as 20 to 30%, and for executive hirer, its done on retainers and different intervals, simply because it can be 6 months to a year to find the right person and the recruiter will end up knowing the candidates pets birthdays its so much of an involved process). Agency recruiters are given roles by organisations and then do out and find a candidate that fits the bill. Not the perfect candidate (doesn't exist), but one that first the role the best.
Agencies also do temp staff, so interim management, or just somebody to help out for a few days here and there. Now again there's a big discrepancy. We do interim work, but mainly specialist contractors who go in to help our clients finish a job, we also do short term holiday cover, but again within specialist market places.
Some firms, perhaps those the chap was referring to as "employment agencies", have a load of people on the books, often unskilled, so clients call up and say I need 200 people to work behind the bars at a festival. They will send a message out, and get 200 people there (or close to that).
If you have a skillset and a qualification, these aren't the people you should be dealing with. They are designed primarily for unskilled labour on short term basis. They work and play a vital part in the employment market, but aren't designed to get you exactly what you are looking for, unless its causal work.
Also, and most crucially in this discussion, recruitment consultants don't skim off the top. We add our fees to the client. If the salary is £45K, you get £45K and we charge a % of that. We want you to get the most money possible and it gets us more money. Similarly temp fees are added as a % of your rate. Simplifying down (without costs of NI and holiday etc) you earn £10 an hour, and we have a 10% markup with a client we charge them £11. (now most of us actually work to margin, so we would charge £11.11).
Now bad companies, do bend the rules, and take advantage. Those that took money for travel from labourers from eastern Europe, or force you through umbrella companies that they own and charge you £40 a week for payroll.* They are bad, but they exist in every industry. You don't disparage all plumbers or electricians because one guy did a shoddy job for you.
Now to address the other point about loads of recruitment consultants. We are at under 6% unemployment. Many markets that require skillsets are at almost 100% employment. Candidate attraction is hard, so agencies have a pivotal role. There is money to be made out there as a recruitment consultant, and the barriers to entry are low. You need a PC a phone, and the ability to pick it up and call somebody. That's it as a start. Yes there is high turn over, because most people can't do it, its hard, its long hours, and we work for free until somebody starts. You can spend weeks, or months or a single vacancy only for the bloke to be counter offered, or for the company to change its mind. All done for absolutely nothing. Companies take a gamble on somebody because they have already paid the phone line, they have already paid for the advertising space, so all you need to do is pay somebody their basis (which isn't a lot at all) and if they fail, move them on and try somebody else. if they succeed then the business is making money.
Now good recruiters understand their market, and they understand their clients. But that takes time to get to that point. (years).
Apologies this wasn't meant to be so long but it needed to be addressed.
NB: for those who work for or use umbrella companies I'm not disparaging, you provide a vital service for agency workers and for those no not wish to work PAYE. Bur these should be independent from agencies, and charge reasonable fees (£15-£25 a week for a standard umbrella, obviously more if your doing full VAT registered Ltd options)
EDIT: Whoops used my 'professional' account rather than my personal.
8
Skimming the wages? Yeah, so you just make things up as it pleases you? We charge a % of the first year salary for someone we place in a job... So the candidate actually gets all of their salary, we don't skim anything. If you're referring to contract then we pay the candidate a day rate (usually what they are after if budget allows) and charge the client a % again. There are a lot of shit recruiters out there, you just need to find one good one and they'll will sort you out.
0†
No didn't you get the memo, were all the same and basically the scum of the earth.
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Employment Agencies will be providing workers to warehouses, into temporary positions and only occasionally placing someone into a full-time permanent role.
A Recruitment Consultancy is more likely to be involved in head-hunting and is will usually to have been assigned by an organisation to fill a position, usually at management level.
Problems can arise when an Employment Agency wants to call itself a Recruitment Consultancy, but still IS and cannot help but behave like an Employment Agency.
1
They also lie on the job descriptions I'm applying for admin jobs and not sales jobs but all the interest I've had is for sales jobs
6
My firm hates them, and would rather pay employees the recruitment consultants fees rather than the recruitment consultant.
Though its difficult to get people with the right skill sets.
5
IT?
3
Which is precisely the reason you would use a trusted agency.
-4
Sorry all "recruiters" do is skim over a CV (if that) in hope the Manager likes, then collects a commission, you basically forward resumes all day.
2†
You really have no idea. If that's all we did, companies would employ an admin assistant on £20k - 25k and never need to use agencies. Most companies try in house recruiters and they still have to use agencies.
However good agencies are thriving. Some really senior level appointments take months and months to coordinate and consultants get to know the children and the pets. Your lumping everyone in together and even at the lower end we do far more than just sort CV's.
2†
I have no idea why you're being downvoted for this, when it's the truth. I guess people just hate recruiters that much!
Edit: spelling
2
Sorry all "recruiters" do is skim over a CV
basically forward resumes all day.
Resume (like the French) or CV?
0
A severe lack of recruitment consultants who know what they're doing.
4
There are far too many recruitment consultants already. Honest to goodness I reject about 5 calls EACH DAY from consultants who have an 'excellent opportunity for which I'd be a perfect fit'. I removed my CV from every job site I signed up to when I got my new job a couple of months back, and set my status to 'not looking' on them all. Still they keep calling and emailing. Absolutely ridiculous.
4
Same. I was job searching a year and a half ago - I added my CV to the big job sites and found a job after a few months. I took down my CV but to this day I get at least 2 emails / texts / calls daily.
They obviously monitor the big jobs sites and download people's CV's with their contact info and keep them in a database so they can pester you.
I was perfectly polite to them at first, but now I just hang up on them. I texted back to one saying "Not interested. Delete me from your list." and they sent back a really snotty text saying I'm "obviously not calibre of person we want to work with". Excuse me? Work with? I don't know you (and didn't give you my information) and you're spamming me daily with your "opportunities"? Get fucked.
Edit: I should note this was a third party agency and not a direct company.
4
I did the same several years ago, I still get calls on a new phone somehow. I also get people calling the place I work at to offer me a job, cheeky bastards
1
Because most recruitment consultant positions have base+OTE payscales, so there's huge turnover.
2
It feels like a huge section of our country's industry is based around unemployed people.
2
What? recruitment is about getting people jobs. Also I would say about 75% of the people I deal with are moving from one organisation to another.
1
diluting the title 'consultant'
2
What a lot of people don't realise is recruitment consultants are paid by agencies to fill vacancies. I've been told by clients that candidates must be male, cant be polish, must be polish, must be under 35, cant have kids, cant be married, must be a certain religion. Obviously situations like that are rare but basically, the company calls the shots, not the consultants. Having said this, it's no excuse for being rude to candidates and people looking for jobs. I know theres a lot of bad recruiters out there. My advice would be if you find a good consultant, stick with them.
2
Urgh recruitment consultants.
They are like ticks, horrible little parasites sucking life from the job market and making everyone who is looking for a job in the industries they leech just a little bit more miserable.
Only estate agents are worse.
2
When I was looking for a job, most of them were advertised by agencies. Despite being perfectly qualified for most jobs I applied for, I was passed over again and again. Didn't actually get a job until I saw one being advertised by the company themselves. Been there nearly 2 years now. I hate agencies, I swear they exist purely to keep unemployment numbers down!
Oh god, so much this.
I work in pretty niche industry and every recruiter that I talked was completely uniformed waste of time. They only looked if I had all the boxes ticked on CV instead of if I can actually do the job.
I know someone who applied for a job with Odeon (not sure if it was though an agency). She was rejected for not having enough experience... she had previously worked in Cineworld for 4 years.
Well, theres your problem
Find a better agency then. If you work in a niche, find a firm that operates in the nice. They will exist because if you have a specialist skillset that's in demand, somebody somewhere will be willing to pay well for it.
Idk why you're being downvoted, because to my experience its completely true that niche agencies are so much more competent at their job than the generic ones
It's because that's all we do. To use an example from another company, a well known one at that, also one that is a bit of a generalist. There is a desk at one of Hayes' European operations, and all they do is recruit front end web developers to work on projects for German retail companies. That's it, If you called and said my firm is designing a website for a Dutch retail company they would say no we can't help. But you bet every single web development firm that wins a contract for a German retail business comes to those two chaps.
Yeah, I know. I did quite a lot of job hunting when I was contracting for quite some years. The issue was when job I was interested in was advertised through an agency and it turned out that the recruiter was clueless. So far I got all of my gigs through talking directly with a company, none through agency / recruiter.
Fair enough. Everyone's experience is different.
Agencies work for the employer, not the employee. They will try to convince you that getting a higher salary for you benefits them too, because they get their fee based on a percentage of the salary. And while that's technically true, you have to remember that they care more about repeat business with an employer than about making more on one specific placement. So many of them make their name with employers by promising qualified candidates for a lower price. Basically, they care a lot more about pleasing an employer than pleasing one specific employee.
There's an element of truth to that, BUT organisations want the best people. There's no point getting somebody who is a bit cheaper, but rubbish.
Most of my clients have pretty set pay scales for roles so there's not a great deal of flex anyway, but trust me, the best way to keep a client happy is to get the best person not the cheapest.
Agencies are about keywords
I had my CV read by 4 experts (recruiters, and a lady from the National Careers Service) and they all said it was perfect after each honed it a touch. Don't know what else they bloody wanted!