Ember Seer (does this wording work?)
Posted May 9, 2015, 6:49 AM UTC
2034
[[Ragemonger]] is an example of a card that only reduces colored cost. But that has straight rules text associated with that, so maybe it does ordinarily reduce colorless costs? I don't know.
3
Yeah, that's what I was looking at. There are a few cards that reduce costs by colored mana, but they have specific clauses stating that they can't reduce colorless mana.
2
117.7a. If a cost is reduced by an amount of colored mana, but its colored mana component doesn't contain mana of that color, the cost is reduced by that amount of generic mana.
3
[deleted]
1
Ragemonger - Gatherer, MC, ($)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^to ^^^call ^^^- ^^^not ^^^on ^^^gatherer ^^^= ^^^not ^^^fetchable
1
You can't put rules into reminder text, it would need to be normal text.
2
It works the same way reminder text or no. That's why [[Edgewalker]] et. al. specify they only reduce coloured cost
4
Edgewalker - Gatherer, MC, ($)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^to ^^^call ^^^- ^^^not ^^^on ^^^gatherer ^^^= ^^^not ^^^fetchable
1
Yes and no.
Did you want to force the player to cast the card then and there to get the benefit, ignoring timing restrictions?
If you reveal [[Bonfire of the Damned]] you won't be able to cast it for X, because you would have to pick one of the triggers to cast it cheaply with.
2
Bonfire of the Damned - Gatherer, MC, ($)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^to ^^^call ^^^- ^^^not ^^^on ^^^gatherer ^^^= ^^^not ^^^fetchable
1
Yes. :]
1
Also doesn't stack. :(
1
I don't think this ability really works. Do you have to cast it right when it's revealed? If so, then anything you reveal that can't be cast at instant speed would be uncastable since it's your draw step. If not, then you have memory issues and potential verification issues if the card is allowed to go into your hand and be hidden rather than exiled. Say you reveal your card and later your opponent hits you with an instant-speed discard card. You have two copies of that card in your hand and now we don't know which one has the effect?
It seems like this should say something like "Exile instead of draw the first card you draw during your draw step. Until end of turn, you can cast that spell for R less. Otherwise, return it to your hand at the end of turn."
2
If so, then anything you reveal that can't be cast at instant speed would be uncastable since it's your draw step.
This is actually incorrect, if you look at a card like [[Djinn of Wishes]] or any sorcery with miracle you can see that this ability would ignore timing restrictions if the player had to cast when the card was revealed.
2
Djinn of Wishes - Gatherer, MC, ($)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^to ^^^call ^^^- ^^^not ^^^on ^^^gatherer ^^^= ^^^not ^^^fetchable
1
Fair point. Although I wish that the plain text on these cards did more to make that clear (particularly with non-miracle cards.)
1
With your current wording, I could denote that this card has been reduced and cast it a5 a later time. You might want to make it something along the lines of 'Until end of turn, you may cast this for R less.'
Just something that mentions the timing. Otherwise, insanely strong but cool card.
1
[deleted]
1
Lightning Bolts - Gatherer, MC, ($)
Lightning Strikes - Gatherer, MC, ($)
Monastery Swiftspear - Gatherer, MC, ($)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^to ^^^call ^^^- ^^^not ^^^on ^^^gatherer ^^^= ^^^not ^^^fetchable
1
I think it does, but to keep it more in line with what Wizards's done before, I'd make it "you may cast that card for either 1 or R less". Negates the need for reminder text.
This is way too good for just R though. I'd definitely bump her cost up. It's a very neat idea though, I like it.
Hm, interesting. I didn't really see a precedent for a non-restricted colored cost reducer, so I was unsure.
Given that it:
• Reveals the first card you draw every turn
• Has timing restrictions (can only cast the spell for less if you cast it when it's revealed)
• At best just adds R each turn
• Is only a 1/1 body
I felt it wasn't too strong, perhaps even a bit weak. Could you explain why you find it too good?
Consider how this plays in a mono-red aggro deck (example), which might have about 15 cards that cost 1 mana and another 10 that cost 2 mana. Playing Ember Seer on turn 1 makes it reasonably likely that you get to cast an extra card almost every turn afterwards because of the mana you save. Mono-red is already a really fast deck when it has a decent start, and getting an extra card each turn pushes it over the line into being too oppressive.
For example, if you play Ember Seer on turn 1, you might get to play two [[Monastery Swiftspear]]s and a [[Wild Slash]] on turn 2, and deal 7 damage to your opponent. On turn 2. Then on turn 3 if you cast [[Hall of Triumph]] for 2 mana and have another Wild Slash, you deal 12 more damage that turn and force your opponent to kill three of your creatures immediately and hope you don't topdeck a burn spell, otherwise they lose the game on turn 4. Plenty of other decks in standard will cast maybe one spell by turn 4.
Alternatively, consider turn 1 Ember Seer, turn 2 [[Eidolon of the Great Revel]] and [[Foundry Street Denizen]] (attack for 1), turn 3 [[Hordeling Outburst]] and [[Monastery Swiftspear]] (attack for 9), and then on turn 4 you have 8 power in play, plus nearly any spell you might draw gives you a couple extra damage.
Obviously Ember Seer won't come down on turn 1 all the time, but when it does, I think it makes a turn-4 or turn-5 kill just too reliable. On the bright side, it's much less useful to mono-red in the late game. So adding even one more mana to the mana cost would significantly impact its playability. I think it would be much better balanced at a cost of RR, or if that still winds up being too strong, it could be a 2/2 for 1RR.
Very well explained. If he wanted it to stay at a one-drop; I could see him changing his cost-reducer to just 1 colorless. Not as competitive as getting a free [[Monastery Swiftspear]], but it does turn your [[Lightning Strikes]] into [[Lightning Bolts]].
Lightning Bolts - Gatherer, MC, ($)
Lightning Strikes - Gatherer, MC, ($)
Monastery Swiftspear - Gatherer, MC, ($)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^to ^^^call ^^^- ^^^not ^^^on ^^^gatherer ^^^= ^^^not ^^^fetchable
Yeah, I agree that would be another good option. Mono-red doesn't actually have that many cards with colorless mana in the mana cost - certainly the early-drop creatures that lead to it being such a fast clock are mostly R or RR - so I think that would make it reasonably balanced.
It might also help to make it a 0/1, which isn't a large effect but does shave off a few damage. But a 0/1 doesn't feel very red.
#####
######
#### Eidolon of the Great Revel - Gatherer, MC, ($)
Foundry Street Denizen - Gatherer, MC, ($)
Hall of Triumph - Gatherer, MC, ($)
Hordeling Outburst - Gatherer, MC, ($)
Monastery Swiftspear - Gatherer, MC, ($)
Wild Slash - Gatherer, MC, ($)
^^Call ^^cards ^^(max ^^30) ^^with ^^[[NAME]]
^^^Add ^^^!!! ^^^in ^^^front ^^^of ^^^your ^^^post ^^^to ^^^get ^^^a ^^^pm ^^^with ^^^all ^^^blocks ^^^replaced ^^^by ^^^images ^^^(to ^^^edit). ^^^Advised ^^^for ^^^large ^^^posts.
I'm always a bit hesitant towards things that can give you free spells, especially in red. If you're putting a lot of R-cost spells, you can be reasonably sure you'll reveal something playable on a semi-regular basis.
I honestly don't play that much competitive, just a little of modern, so I'm probably not the best judge. Again, it's just my gut instinct on red 1-drops enabling free spells.
My wording:
"Reveal the first card you draw each turn. Whenever you reveal a card this way you may cast it. If you do, it costs {R} less to cast.
Edit: By default, reducing the cost of a spell by an amount of coloured mana that doesn't contain that colour reduces the generic mana cost instead.
Just like to say that unless you word it like this it won't reduce colorless mana. There's a cleric that reduces costs by WB but does't reduce colorless mana.
EDIT- I didn't know this but the rules have changed since and I am in the wrong here.
117.7a. If a cost is reduced by an amount of colored mana, but its colored mana component doesn't contain mana of that color, the cost is reduced by that amount of generic mana.
The Oracle text for Edgewalker specifically states that it reduces only the coloured mana cost.