Source
r/GoogleCardboard•
FG_Regulus

PC Streaming Without Bleeding Eyes?

Got a GC for my Galaxy S5 and playing with the android apps was nothing short of amazing. The roller coaster gave me a bit of motion sickness because of the low framerate, but Chair in a Room was perfectly horrifying. I imagine adding a bluetooth controller, some SDK improvements, and some proper games in Unreal or Unity 5 can really make it a great platform. Next thing I tried was PC streaming and... oh. My system is pretty good - i5 4690 w/ r9 290, so I know that it's not my machine being the problem. Games run 100+ FPS, but the phone just really hates it.

The main reason I was looking into GC was the potential of streaming from my PC until "real" VR came out; unfortunately no matter what I do I can't seem to get framerate/quality settings to anything reasonable. Kainy - stuttering and horrible artifacts at settings that don't. Streamtop - s.t.u...tt.....eee....rrr. And it won't stream at more than 30. But at least it doesn't use 70% of my CPU. EDIT: Windows defender defaults to real time protection and thusly feels the need to scan every single byte that Trinus sends... Turning that off dropped my CPU usage to ~20-30%. Trinus VR - Great at 400x400 windows w/fake3d. Anything else runs at ~20FPS regardless of settings and tether 2.0/tether 3.0/5Ghz wifi (@100Mbs). Heaven forbid I want 1080p w/Tridef3D - I get about 10FPS (though the server says 30+). EDIT: An update improves the performance. 4:3 1024x768 or 960x1080 w/Fake3D is somewhat playable with Windows Defender off. Pretty much all of these have 100-500ms delays in either input or output. I've gone online and tried all the fixes around, but nada.

Do any of you have some recommendations or do you think I should just wait until the release of the Vive/Oculus/OSVR/etc, where I can experience VR in all it's glory?

Posted May 21, 2015, 1:12 AM UTC · edited

712
Bigglesworth94•

Fellow GC and galaxy s5 owner. Waiting for more answers so I can feed off of what you learn and set up a pc VR too. Gg.

2
google_search_expert•

i use trinus vr and tridef with my lenovo y50 and the few games ive streamed (usb tethered) actually run fluidly. i played a bit of skyrim and l4d2. I'm using moonlight though, which I think is only compatible with nvidia cards. I need to mess with the lens calibration more, as the edges overshoot my homido and colorcross (i have like 5 or 6 different headsets). I get some jittery movement with skyrim but i disabled mouse smooth/acceleration in the .ini and its a bit smoother. im guessing maybe moonlight makes the difference??

2
FG_RegulusOP•

Yeah, moonlight grabs the frame buffer, encodes, and sends off the compressed video all in the gpu - really fast stuff. AMD has the hardware in place to do this on their GPUs and APUs, but no app made yet. Intel can't capture the frame buffer but the hardware encoding exists. Again, no apps though.

I just grabbed the SDKs, I'll see about making a moonlight alternative for the other two platforms when I get free time.

6
Odd-Fuck•

This might be of little value; but I've had some experience with MJPEG streaming. If you have the bandwidth (which you might with USB - what is it, 480mbit/s? That could get you to 60fps I presume) you could apply that instead. Very low latency times and CPU usage since no interframe compression is applied. Would work with any system too. Apart from that, don't forget to timewarp (or reproject so to speak), I think that isn't done much yet with Cardboard but I believe it to be beneficent.

3
Ryan86me•

Keep us updated on that, many users in this sub (me included) would appreciate an AMD moonlight alternative.

2
AlvaroB•

And an intel one!

3
loxai•

don't give up on Trinus VR, it still under development and will get much better (just today there was a server update that should give a bit of a speed bump). Results will vary depending on game, but I get low latency on Crysis 2 at about 45fps using 1280x720 (with stereoscopic 3D, should be better at 1024x768 with fake3D) on my i7 laptop. As from the difference in reported/real fps, that's probably due to frameskip setting.

2
FG_RegulusOP•

Hey, I recognize that username! Some constructive criticism:

  1. 1280x720 (640x720 per eye) really is unplayable. Especially with regards to VR, where the screen door effect will be abysmal. Yeah, it makes it run faster but that's just awful. 1024x768 is okay for the Fake3D settings (since that's more like 2048x768), but the aspect ratio is off (try to use 960x1080) and it makes it look like you're watching a big distorted TV screen since there's no 3D. I'm not sure why Trinus has so much trouble doing this (especially off the USB tether), when Kainy can do 1080p@60fps fairly easily (but the lack of tethering causes stutters).

  2. I don't know if the 45 FPS is bottlenecked by your machine's GPU or Trinus itself - but that's well below the threshold of VR motion sickness for most people.

  3. The main problem with Trinus isn't your app itself, really. Screen fetching and compression causes most of it, which is why those with Nvidia's Lime/Moonlight haven't been complaining near as much. If you would go look at AMD's Media SDK and use the VCE (with it's direct frame buffer access) as well as Intel's QuickSync - you could, rather easily, make new capture & compression methods that don't take 70% of an i5 4690, has no detriment on GPU performance, and has less screen->screen latency. Like I said above, I've got the docs and I'm probably going to do this in my free time but if you were to do it and directly integrate it you'd save some time, make everyone's lives easier, and be the only person in the market to do so!

1
loxai•

I'm famous! ;)

  1. The Virtual Boy had lower resolution and it was playa--- ok, fair enough, but I think it is still playable at 720 and is a start to show the potential (the original Oculus had that resolution, if I remember correctly). Yes, a 8:9 is the ideal for fake3d, but that's not available in all cases (or tricky to set for some users) so I generally recommend going for 4:3 to simplify things (and the aspect ratio can also be sorted via lens correction)
  2. There are many factors involved in motion sickness and alternative ways to minimise the chances. Yes, better fps can help but I'm not sure it is so crucial as some might promote
  3. I checked VCE and really look forward to implementing it (and integrate the Nvidia api too), as I'm sure it can make a big difference. But this task will take a good amount of time and, as I am learning, the process of creating a startup, managing a product that is accessible for most users and working on getting funds (showing potential and traction) to grow and be able to do more is much more complicated and time consuming than the 'fun part' of coding. It's a tricky balance. That said, if you have the skills and would like to work on it, ping me, maybe we can team up to get there quicker :)
2
FG_RegulusOP•

Oh good God, the Virtual Boy. 1x224 red monochromatic screens with oscillating mirrors for a total of 384x244. God knows the refresh rate... So Sexy. But I do get what you're saying with regards to 720 being more of a showcase of the future possibilities; I suppose I'm being a bit short sighted by criticizing that.

The original Oculus had that resolution, if I remember correctly

I actually only found the Oculus Rift when DK2 came out, I've never seen anything about the DK1 except how inadequate it was at anything but a proof of concept. But if Google Cardboard (and Trinus of course) can make a similar experience already, smartphone VR may just have a healthy future.

There are many factors involved in motion sickness and alternative ways to minimize the chances.

I think frame rate is up there with motion to photon latency, though. A monitor can get away with low FPS (provided the user is accustom), but when you block out the world and all you see is low res, low speed frames it gets uncomfortable for most people. That said, the negative effects are pretty log(n) and the thresholds variable to each individual. Also, I just read about the virtual nose study... You're really ahead of the game aren't you?.

Creating a startup, managing a product, ... working on getting funds, ... etc

Wow, so it really is just you? I knew you were the developer, but I thought you'd at least have a couple guys to help out with the PR, website, legal, etc. Absolute kudos for all the good work, God knows I couldn't do that. Keep up the good work, Trinus is definitely the most complete package right now and I hope to be using it a lot more in the future!

Just today there was a server update.

I did see a noticeable improvement - a solid 25-30fps at 1080p unless I moved the screen too fast, where it dropped into the teens (damn entropy). Fake3D @ 960x1080 was pretty much playable besides a bit of stutter or when I moved my head quickly. I also found most of my CPU usage is actually not Trinus/Window Manager but Windows Defender's realtime protection scanning the entire output of Trinus. Without it, my CPU usage plummeted to the 20-30% range. I believe this is the default setting for Windows 7+, so it might be a nice idea to add that to your Help page under "bad performance" as well as any other problematic AV that may be doing the same thing. I edited my first post so people don't get the wrong idea about your product.

If you have the skills and would like to work on it, ping me, maybe we can team up

Lowly comp sci student here. If you want my help, I would be more than happy to give it (not much real-world experience is offered at my uni if you aren't a senior); but you'd have to accept it with the understanding that my performance and quality of work is still a WIP. Although with the 4+ years of self teaching and practice I'd like to think I'm somewhat proficient.

1
Cotelio•

Your post actually introduced me to the OSVR and holy shit I'm excited. July's my birthmonth, I'll get one for me B-day if possible :D

$200 for that, crazy.... I humbly accept my new overlords at Razer.

1
FG_RegulusOP•

Yeah, looks crazy cool. But with the Vive, Oculus, Freefly VR (assuming streaming can be rectified), the eye-tracking one, etc all coming out within the same 2/3 quarters I'm a little flabbergasted as to what to do! I'll just have to wait for some reviews and prices to come out!

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[deleted]•

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