Source
r/dndnext•
Hunyock

Are weapon proficiencies considered skill proficiencies?

What started out as a simple question has been maddeningly hard to prove one way or another. That is, could the Rogue's class feature of "expertise" (double your proficiency bonus for a skill proficiency) be used on a weapon proficiency? Are weapon proficiencies considered to be skill proficiencies?

Can anyone provide an "official" reference (PHB, DMG, designers' clarifications, etc.) that answers this?

Thanks in advance!

Posted May 29, 2015, 12:47 AM UTC

08
jwbjerk•

I think it is pretty clear that tool, vehicle, weapon, and skill proficiencies are different types of proficiencies in 5e.

At 1st level, choose two of your skill proficiencies, or one of your skill proficiencies and your proficiency with thieves’ tools.

They are careful specially include thieve's tools in the description. If everything was a skill proficiency then that last half of the sentance would be unneccesary and misleading.

11
Bohrdumb•

I'm not sure why this needs clarification. They are two different terms.

7
HasireDM•

Nope. Skill proficiency are skill proficiency.

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HappySailorGM•

The official reference is that they all are different things. There isn't a single passage that implies they are the same.

Having a different name IS the reference point. Glass Cleaner and Wood Cleaner are two cleaners, but they are not interchangeable or in anyway something you would consider the "same".

Plus Rogues would be the most broken thing in the game if they let you double your attack bonus. Everyone would multiclass into rogue, and I mean everyone.

TLDR: They are different and the official reason as to why they are different is because they just are. Weapons are for weapons and skills are for skills...That's it. They are in no way interchangeable and it would destroy the game balance to make them the same

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HunyockOP•

Agreed, and this matches my understanding as well. The question came up at our table and it seemed harder to prove than I thought it would be.

So by way of defining and categorizing proficiencies: Skill Proficiencies are associated with abilities e.g. "perception (WIS)", Tool Proficiencies are associated with, well, tools (thieves tools, artisans tools, etc), and Armor and Weapon Proficiencies are really their own, very specific thing.

I don't have my books in front of me, but am I missing any other "types" of proficiencies?

0
HasireDM•

Skill proficiencys are not associated with Abilities ( Str, Dex, etc. ), they are associated with Skills ( Perception, Acrobatics, Perception, Slight of Hand, Perception ).

1
Kindulas•

"Skills" specifically refers to the Skill Checks. Athletics, Perception, Arcana, etc. a Skill Proficiency is proficiency in a Skill. A Weapon proficiency is a Weapon Proficiency, not a Skill Proficiency. If a Skill Proficiency could be any kind of proficiency, including weapons, it wouldn't specify you could choose thieves tools.

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Abdiel_KavashConjurer of Cheap Tricks•

A "skill" isn't just anything the character is good at. There is a definite list of skills in chapter 7 (Athletics, Acrobatics, Sleight of Hand, ...) Anything that's not on that list is not a skill.

Your character might be skilled at making pottery, but you don't have a Pottery skill you could apply expertise to. Similarly, there is no Weapons skill or similar.

 

Further evidence:

At 1st level, choose two of your skill proficiencies, or one of your skill proficiencies and your proficiency with thieves’ tools. Your proficiency bonus is doubled for any ability check you make that uses either of the chosen proficiencies.

Expertise only helps you with ability checks. Attack rolls are not ability checks. (References for that are plentiful in the PHB: introduction, chapter 7; or specifically clarified by the devs here).

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