Reddit takes on Impaired Driving Laws

http://np.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/37yqus/i_found_a_drunk_guy_that_i_tried_to_help/crr32mb

Rule 2: Whether you are in a state that combines operation and driving under one element, or if you are in a state that has separate statutes for impaired driving or operating while impaired, I know of no state that has a per se rule that possession of the keys constitutes operation.

Operation at a bare minimum requires the engine to be running or keys to be inserted into the ignition.

Caveat: possession of keys can be corroborating evidence to support an allegation of operation or driving in a corpus delicti type situations that arises in wrecks or instances in which the operator has left the vehicle or shut the engine off.

But as a whole you can be impaired and sitting in a car with the keys in your possession so long as you don't do something more like start the engine or put the keys in the ignition.

I know I'm being niggling and it is better if people were to put the keys in an area where they could not actually possess them, but at the same time, misperceptions such as this only serve to demean the severity of impaired driving offenses.

Posted May 31, 2015, 10:35 PM UTC

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TMNBortlesIncoherent pro se litigant•

You can be charged with DUI if you are in "actual physical control" in Florida (and other states) by just being in your car and having your keys nearby. I've read cases about people who were in the passenger seat and someone else was driving but they broke down and the sober person left (to get help or something) and the cops charged the drunk person with DUI because they were in actual physical control.

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ThatsnotthelawThis probably isn't either•

Chiming in that APC is chargeable in Alabama as well. Hell, our 1L legal writing memo was all about it.

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TMNBortlesIncoherent pro se litigant•

Mine was too! I probably quoted some Alabama cases. I was shocked by how open ended it was. People got convictions for being drunk in their own driveway and another had a flat tire, but the court said the defendant could have changed the tire and started to drive drunk. I guess one should slash two tires before drunk napping in their car?

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ThatsnotthelawThis probably isn't either•

Haha. Did you find the case where the guy was sitting in a totally inoperable car being towed on a chain?

Our fact pattern was kind of fun. Involved Taylor Swift and an antique car that had to be started by crank.

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TMNBortlesIncoherent pro se litigant•

Ours involved a key fob. You know, the kind where when the key fob is close to the car, you can push the button to start the car. Well the person was drunk and the key fob was in the cabin of the car in her purse (maybe in the backseat). The question was whether this would constitute actual physical control even though she was unaware the key fob was with her. As you can imagine, it was a toss up (if for no other reason than the problems with new tech). What isn't a toss up is when the key is in your grab area. Those are clear cut.

I don't remember anyone being towed, but it does not surprise me.

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sprgrssOPJudgment Arrested•

The guy being towed is completely legitimate given that operation of the brake pedal was necessary based upon the manner in which he was being towed.

2
HumanMilkshake•

I know people that claim to have gotten a ticket for "intent to commit DUI" in Nebraska while sleeping it off in the back seat because the keys were in the front seat.

I'm pretty sure they're lying, but that's besides the point.

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sprgrssOPJudgment Arrested•

Do you have an actual cite for this, especially the broad definition of "actual physical control"?

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ThatsnotthelawThis probably isn't either•

Ala. Code 32-5A-191 uses actual physical control as the standard. Judicial gloss defines it pretty broadly, but if you're sitting in the driver's seat with a key, you're probably getting charged.

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sprgrssOPJudgment Arrested•

Well I'll be damned.

That said, OP's claim about being in the backseat with the keys doesn't seem to fit the actual physical control that the courts have developed.

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TMNBortlesIncoherent pro se litigant•

You're probably safe in the backseat (if I remember correctly), but just put the keys in the trunk or glovebox or something. Don't keep them in your hand or in your grab area. Actual physical control is a ridiculous doctrine. Also, I personally probably wouldn't even sleep in the backseat. The cases that I've read that have been upheld seemed to contravene common sense (note the case about the flat tire I mentioned earlier). So ¯_(ツ)_/¯

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TMNBortlesIncoherent pro se litigant•

You can Google it or search it in Westlaw. It's a term of art, so it's easy to find.

Edit: http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictionary/P/PhysicalControl.aspx

There's plenty in there for you.

5
psycoee•

http://www.remlawgroup.com/Legal-Articles/Driving-While-Intoxicated-When-Sleeping-in-a-Parked-Car.shtml

It's most certainly possible to be charged with a DWI even if the engine is not running. Basically, if the circumstances imply that the defendant drove while intoxicated, that may be enough to get a conviction in some states. For example, finding someone sleeping in a car while drunk on the side of a road, if the engine is still warm and the person has keys on them. Of course, it's always possible to lie and say there was someone else driving, but you would need some corroboration.

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sprgrssOPJudgment Arrested•

Hence this statement in my Rule 2:

Caveat: possession of keys can be corroborating evidence to support an allegation of operation or driving in a corpus delicti type situations that arises in wrecks or instances in which the operator has left the vehicle or shut the engine off.

2
Naejard•

It is, but note that in Canada a man was found not guilty of being in control of a vehicle while drunk when he fell asleep on the front seat while the engine was running, because he successfully convinced the Court that he was trying to warm himself up after deciding to wait until sober to drive. (It is Canada: shit gets cold)

I can get a source if it's truly necessary, but I won't unless asked.

1