Source
r/LearnJapanese•
Particlemage

I've decided to start learning. Any advice, recommendations (beyond the FAQ)?

Studying

Howdy folks. I apologize if there's millions of other identical threads, some (admittedly cursory) searching did not turn up quite what I was looking for. Basically, I'm hoping you guys can offer me your thoughts and advice specific to my situation.

Weeaboo alert: my primary motivation for learning the language is the desire to enjoy Japanese media -- videogames in particular (even more specifically, the 3DS remakes of the Dragon Quest Monsters games will likely never show up stateside. These are the first games I'll be playing, though I have absolutely no expectation of being able to -understand- dialogue in them any time soon).

I will be self-teaching, starting as recommended with hiragana and katakana. After this, I plan to use the 'learn kanji alongside vocabulary and grammar' approach. I learn best when I can immediately ascribe meaning to a concept by placing it within the context of other related concepts. When I learn a new kanji (or any concept, really), the first thing I'm going to want is to do is use it, so I will use that desire to drive the vocabulary, and then use the vocabulary to drive grammar.

I do know a fluent, native Japanese speaker with whom I can practice speech.

I do not currently aspire to live or work in Japan long-term, though I'd love to visit. In any case I am not, at the moment, particularly concerned with knowing how to communicate in a socially acceptable and polite way ("keigo"?) since I don't suspect I'll be doing much in the way of true-to-life communication.

So, all that being said, any thoughts or recommendations? I like the look of Anki and definitely plan to use it. As highly-regarded as Genki seems to be, would it be a great fit for me and what/why I wish to learn? Is there anything important that I've missed, or otherwise haven't considered that I really should? Feel free to chime in.

Thanks!

Posted Aug 10, 2015, 11:18 PM UTC

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TheSporkWithin•

First, yes, Genki is a good place to start no matter what your ultimate goals are, because the basics will be the same no matter what. You can certainly focus your studies on certain areas, but that won't really figure in until you're relatively advanced and are focusing on building your extended vocabulary. That won't be for a few years.

Yes, years. You probably won't be able to make heads or tails of any kind of game dialogue until you've got at least one year of diligent study under your belt, unless you consider punching every sentence into jisho.org and trying to guess at the grammar that links it together "understanding." I wouldn't recommend trying to play anything that requires reading comprehension until you're at least halfway through Genki 2 (or equivalent), because until then there's simply too much basic, constantly used grammar that you just won't know.

Finally, I'd just like to note that all formality levels of speech are used in games, and there are often dialects and slang thrown in as well. You can't "skip" keigo, or any other part of the language just because you only plan on playing games and reading manga.

If you really want to learn the language, great. Just know that it's a long-haul commitment, regardless of how "humble" your goals may be.

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ParticlemageOP•

The insight is appreciated! Genki sounds like it'll do just fine. I wasn't sure about keigo since I gathered from a couple threads that anime/games/manga wouldn't really expose you to much of it, but in hindsight I see it's more of an anime thing. Thank you for clarifying.

I'm under no illusions that I'll be cruising through a library of Japanese media in a matter of weeks or months. I recognize the value of learning a language as a process that has the potential to enrich my life in a vast number of ways beyond simply being able to play a wider variety of games. I just acknowledge that my immediate desire, the thing that gave me that push from 'want to do' to 'has started doing' is that simple nugget tied into one of my favorite hobbies.

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TheSporkWithin•

That's fine, I just don't want you thinking that you'll be plowing through even simple children's games without investing a ton of effort and time. If you're willing to invest the time and energy, fantastic. If not, get out now before you waste your time. :P

As a tip, if you want to accelerate your learning and supplement Genki I'd suggest devoting some time each day to vocabulary. It will make the transition from textbook to actual material much easier, as while Genki does a good job of laying out foundational grammar the vocabulary it provides is limited. There are anki decks out there, but I personally think that www.iknow.jp does a much nicer job of presenting the material with multiple types of queries and can seriously kickstart your vocabulary acquisition. I'd work through the first three or four chapters of Genki before starting, but after that I think it can be a huge help. I wish I'd known about it earlier in my learning when it would have been more useful to me.

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ParticlemageOP•

I'm beginning to regret my decision. Imagine my disappointment when I see the Japanese name for the cleverly named "Putrepup" creature is "アニマルゾンビ". Hahaha

No actual regrets, mind you. Now that I've learned all of the kana, I'm playing a bit just to get used to reading them aloud on sight regardless of whether or not I understand. I'm a chapter into Genki and having a great time so far!

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SlimeStack•

To my knowledge a lot of Dragon Quest games have furigana in them because it's an all-ages simple RPG type of series, so it might be a fairly decent way to practise your reading. Presumably you're into RPGs too so you might be able to grasp the context fairly easily. Make sure you don't get into the habit of just ignoring all the text though.

You'll be needing to learn all forms of Japanese no matter what really. If you're only speaking with your native friend then naturally you'll stick to casual speech the majority of the time, but you'll still need to understand the polite stuff. Video games will still have shopkeepers or characters that are strangers to eachother or separated by age/status, etc. It won't hurt to practise saying that stuff out aloud either just so you don't have a heart attack if you ever do speak to someone other than your friend.

Definitely get Anki. There are a few great decks depending on what you want. The Core 6000 deck is pretty nice. If you want to be playing games a lot you may as well build your own deck as you go along and try to add a few words that you see in the game each day and improve your vocabulary that way.

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ParticlemageOP•

Thank you, this is good to know. I understand that furigana can get a bit of a bad rap in terms of becoming a crutch. Any tips for avoiding that, or is it a simple conscious decision to learn a kanji for real even if it's accompanied by furigana when I come across it?

Thank you for clarifying the importance/necessity of keigo. I misinterpreted information I saw in a couple of other threads, and it sounds like this shouldn't be too much of a problem since I don't intend to use games as study material, only to apply and practice what I learn elsewhere.

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SlimeStack•

Chances are you'll need to learn the Kanji to understand what's going on anyway. If you see a word pronounced "ki", it could be 気, 木, 黄, 汽, etc. As a non-native, you're going to need extra help with understanding the context since you won't always understand the grammar surrounding a word. Too many words sound the exact same for you to be going by the furigana alone.

When you study Kanji you should also be giving yourself tests anyway, and those won't include furigana, so you should be fine.

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6itch•

A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar, Taeko Kamiya's Japanese Verbs and Japanese adjectives and Kodanshas Basic Connections. Genki is alright but I find that it babys you instead of making you work to learn the material.

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SoKratez•

Yes, Genki is still good. Honestly I think it's a solid foundation that will serve 99% of beginners, regardless of what their respective goals are, because that basic core foundation is the same.

The only other thing I'd say is, don't avoid learning sometime like kanji. It's a part of the language's grammar and saying "I'm gonna skip this," is akin to saying "I'm gonna skip the passive voice- it's not that important right?"

To reiterate, keigo is a part of natural Japanese and will, in some way or other, definitely come up in just about any native material I can think of (like, servants talking to masters, army guys talking to higher ranking soldiers, any game where there's a "shop"... it could come up).

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