Boys and girls, this is why we ALWAYS ban Smashville
Posted Sep 29, 2015, 8:51 AM UTC
130110
That's why the smashville syndrome is bad. A lot of people don't understand how this stage greatly benefit both sheik and Villager.
65
Ahh, so that's how Ranai got eliminated.
52
I was almost better off not knowing we didn't see Nairo v. Ranai because of this dumbass jank.
29
How is this jank? Sorry to interrupt the anti-sheik circlejerk, but this is just a really good player utilizing the stage really well, and winning a bad matchup.
15
It's not jank. The platform is easily trackable, avoidable, and usable to some degree by the whole cast.
I understand banning smashville to avoid getting killed early by sheik, but it's not jank. People throw that word around anytime they're salty.
20
To be fair, people throw it around too for things like the low Delfino ceilings in transitions, which is technically avoidable too.
4
Then what's your definition of jank? That it's unavoidable or unforseeable?
That's not how the word is popularly used... If Sheik rage fairing you repeatedly to kill you at 0 isn't jank then idk what is
-2
Used a buzzword to generalize, apologies. What i meant to say was that i was disappointed that Ranai didn't get to fight Nairo in bracket.
1
[deleted]
1
Nairo vs Ranai did happen in a crew battle though. Ranai 2 stocked him in a 3 stock match
13
And i like many people wanted to see it again in bracket.
7
I was so surprised to see Ranai out so early
2
"Jank"?
2
Doesn't that platform extend everyone's reach, though? Villager has some insane air strings that would benefit from it as well. You probably don't want Smashville if you're able to go super deep, to keep that advantage, but I feel like almost everyone else would be a wash. Sheik can probably capitalize most easily but that's more or less the case across the board already.
And is it me/the camera, or does he just keep DI'ing into him?
40
Little Mac reach is questionable lol.
12
Just sit on the tippy-edge of the platform and charge smash attacks. Probably the deepest Mac will ever be able to go!
14
While yes, most characters do get something out of it, sheik has the easiest time using it. And not only that, she also by far gets the most out of it. Even if a falcon player is way better than a sheik player, there's on so many up airs and n-airs he can string. But a sheik can string fairs for days.
All other characters don't have nearly as many or as long or as easy inescapable combos as her.
Moral of the story: Main Sheik
10
But then nobody would be able to bitch about losing to a sheik
4
As a Villager main myself this is very true. Villager's fairs and bairs work great with the moving platform, and against just about anyone else except Sheik I would be fine with Smashville. I think Ranai was planning to counterattack, cause I saw the beginning of the fair animation. If he did nair instead he would have broken out of it. It was probably a missed input. Also, Villager gets combo'd easy with his floaty weight. Rage Sheik probably gave her the perfect knockback on fairs to string well against a 0% Villager
2
"floaty weight"
4
[deleted]
1
At a recent tournament match (it was S2j vs macd I think) Mango commentated that it's funny how Falcon can combo knee to knee and he said "imagine if shiek could combo from fair to fair".
I don't know if he was being cheeky or if he doesn't know about Smash 4 shiek lol.
26
He might not know about sm4sh sheik. I wouldn't be surprised if he never played.
Sheik doesn't really have any air wobbles into rest like she dies in 4. Its mostly her ground control that makes her dominant
19
Mango played smash 4 at least once with lucky, it was recorded. I wouldn't be surprised if he never saw a sheik fair string though.
3
I mean that's very different. Her fair in Smash 4 does not have a high knockback which is why it can combo so well. Her fair in Melee is a kill move with high horizontal knockback so there's no way it would combo. It's not the same move at all between Smash 4 and Melee.
7
Couldn't Villager dodge or pocket out at any time? There seemed like enough time.
20
There was not. It was not a "true combo" but it was mostly inescapable.
Most sheik fair planes are inescapable for most characters. Air dodge and jump don't come out quick enough to help, only options like rising uppercut or trick shot can disrupt it.
Pretty sure he tried to pocket halfway through and it didn't work.
25
Also invincibility moves like dolphin slash, focus attack, and many others can accomplish this.
14
Can frame 3 aerials break out?
1
Depends on character and %, but it's often easy to break out with frame five aerials because the timing is pretty strict with how quick you have to be. Frame 3 is all the more likely. Just DI away is arguably the most important aspect.
1
Doesn't air dodge have invincibility frames starting frame 2? Since you can air dodge earlier out of tumble than you can do another action, air dodge should work any time something like rising uppercut or trick shot should work, shouldn't it?
Edit: Apparently airdodges have invincibility on frame 2 for certain characters. 3 for other and 4 for others. Didn't know that! Worth looking into. Thanks u/JSConrad45
7
[deleted]
3
Frame 2 Airdodgers:
-
Pit/Dark Pit
-
Diddy Kong
-
Duck Hunt
-
Falco
-
Fox
-
Greninja
-
Little Mac (yes, really)
-
Lucario
-
Metaknight
-
Mewtwo
-
Mr. Game & Watch
-
Pikachu
-
Sheik
-
Sonic
-
Toon Link
-
Wii Fit Trainer
-
Zero Suit Samus
Frame 3 Airdodgers:
-
Bowser Jr.
-
Captain Falcon
-
Charizard
-
Mario/Dr. Mario
-
Ike
-
Kirby
-
Link
-
Lucas
-
Luigi
-
Marth/Lucina
-
Mega Man
-
Miis
-
Ness
-
Pac-Man
-
Palutena
-
Peach
-
ROB
-
Robin
-
Rosalina
-
Roy
-
Samus
-
Shulk
-
Villager
-
Wario
-
Yoshi
-
Zelda
Frame 4 Airdodgers:
-
Bowser
-
Donkey Kong
-
Ganondorf
-
Jigglypuff
-
King Dedede
-
Ryu
[edit: forgot a couple. Man there's a lot of characters.]
9
Uppercut frame 1 invincibility, trick shot is weird though not sure why it works. Can comes out quick and can't be disrupted but the hitbox isn't activate until frame 16. So DHD eats the fair and can but it disrupts further combos
1
Yes, but you can airdodge earlier out of hitstun than you can do those other options.
If airdodge has frame 2 invincibility but comes out 4 frames earlier than uppercut, obviously it will work in any case that uppercut would, no? (Except at very low percents where this doesn't apply anyway.)
2
It was not a "true combo" but it was mostly inescapable.
Isn't that what a true combo is? Looked like you contradicted yourself.
1†
"True combo" indicates they are stuck in hitstun the entire time and literally can't do anything
Certain characters have escape options that can be exercised. You could call it a true combo for certain characters but that'd be misleading. This is why i said "mostly inescapable"
True combos are straight up inescapable
8
But are "true combos" even possible in SSB4?
2
No, a true combo is a combo that can't be escaped because the character is still in hitstun, not because a character doesn't have fast enough moves.
3
he tried fair halfway through but im pretty sure he meant nair instead, and he might have gotten out. I've traded nairs with sheik fairs before
1
Yup, not a true combo, the string was too slow.
2
Couldn't he have also DI'd?
1
what does pocket do besides the stuff with items?
1
It has invincibility frames at the beginning.
5
ah okay, thanks!
1
There's invincibility frames when you use pocket and don't pick up an item so it works like a dodge.
1
more like sheikville amirite
18
Every stage is Shiekville.
40
Super Sheik Brothers for Nintendo 3DS and Wii U
28
Man, I with they would make it start on Stock Matches. I'm sick of hearing the announcer yell "SHEIK FOR ALL!"
2
the second people learn how to combo in smash 4 is when all the scrubs start complaining how it's op
12
its disproportionate how possible comboing is for some characters than others. when that gap is too large, than you have people getting upset, which is understandable. i dont know why sakurai gave some characters so much more potential than others smdh. let my wii fit shine already
13
I think its because he wants characters' playstyles to be true to their respective games. It just so happens that some of kits are better suited for the game than others. The best example I can think of is power suit vs zero suit. Samus is, obviously, much stronger in her power suit in her games. However, zero suit's lore-driven kit is much more powerful in the context of smash which favors different things highly, such as mobility, etc.
3
If only sakurai had realized that there was no reason to fuck up the already well balanced hitstun formula from melee.
-1
Allow me to direct you to a sub called r/Meleecirclejerk
1
I'm not wrong. The lack of hitstun did end up hurting brawl and sm4sh
1
If more characters could do that, you wouldn't hear as much complaining.
9
I know right??? Prepare to be down voted, but I completely agree with you.
-1†
we get it, sheik is good on smashville
4
DI in DI in DI in DI in DI in DI in
3†
Is he actually holding in, or do people just feel the need to make this comment on every clip posted?
5
The first 2 hits is kinda hard to tell but from the ftilt on he was DIing in. The 3rd fair it also looks like he was DIing in because after the hitstun he looks like he's drifting forward.
1
Yeah, he actually is DIing in in the gif, but I don't know if it would have made too big of a difference.
1
How can you tell? DI does almost nothing at low percents in this game.
1
You can see Villager tumbling really slightly to the right after each hit. It might just be my imagination, though.
1
Yeah I got ko'd at less than 30% because I got smashed on that platform. Just doesn't seem right.
2
Are you sure we can't just ban full rage Shiek? /s
2
I think Rage helped out in this too.
2
He would've needed another hit to kill without rage probably.
2
Someone make a Smash 4 mod where Sheik (or maybe Roy) has Jigglypuff's jumps. Sort of like that "Melee Meta Knight" video.
2
All Villager had to do was Up B.
1
It isn't auto ban, it's pick your poison. You want tippered Upsmashes on BF? you want needle camping on FD? Sheik can always just scratch off T&C and Dreamland if she wants too so you've pretty much gotta decide which option you want to respect the most.
1
My poison would be dying the same way Ranai died in this video. Sheik is a bad matchup, but on smashville sheik can sweetspot usmash, needle camp, and utilize the drifting platform. Id pick fd or BF over smashville
1
There's been like, a shillion of these posts.
1
Could've held away and lived.
1
autocombo char makes all these players look much better than they really are, its such a shame ranai got eliminated by this crud
-1†
How many times are we gonna have to have gyfs of fair strings before we get the idea and stop shitposting?
-1†
This irratates me more than it should
Yes
Tell me about it.