Source
r/summonerschool•
StringerLittle

Critique my Nocturne Build

Nocturne

Runes- Armour pen reds/quints, armour yellows, scaling CDR blues (run MR into some champs)

Summoners- Smite and Exhaust

Build- Warrior rush-ghostblade-LW (LW before GB first sometimes if I don't need MS as much) Dead man's plate-Banshees/GA. Boots either mercs or tabis

So the questionable things

Runes- Full armour pen reds/quints. I just stole this from a high elo jungler I know who runs full arpen on Vi/Khazix/Rengar etc and did the math for them on Nocturne. Turns out that they increase your damage by quite a bit at the cost of a very slightly slower first clear (about 2 seconds and 30-40 health worse clear through krugs/red/raptors)

Summoners- No flash. I've been experimenting with ignite on Nocturne a bit too because I really don't find flash that necessary on him except vs ADCs that can jump over walls in fights, and even in these cases I can generally get away with no flash. Exhaust makes your duelling potential ridiculous, gives stronger ganks/2v2s, and lategame it wrecks ADCs in the window they have to kill you before they get feared and die. The slow also helps compensate for no botrk. Ignite is solid too but I've had much more luck with exhaust.

No botrk- Botrk is considered a standard item on Nocturne, but outside of splitpushing or fighting tanks I don't see the point anymore. He doesn't need sustain and isn't naturally tanky enough generally to sit in the middle of a fight and tank stuff while sustaining. With proper clearing technique you can get through the jungle with enough health. The slow is nice for chasing but with E speed up + Q speed up + ghostblade + Dead man's slow + chilling smite it really isn't necessary. Ghostblade/LW are both way more burst damage and spike earlier.

Anyways curious to hear criticisms.

Posted Oct 27, 2015, 4:25 AM UTC

019
S7EFENChallenger I•

Turns out that they increase your damage by quite a bit at the cost of a very slightly slower first clear (about 2 seconds and 30-40 health worse clear through krugs/red/raptors)

Compared to an attack speed page? If that's the difference in speed then yeah, solid page.

Summoners- No flash

I feel like a Gragas/Lee/Nidalee/Elise/Reksai + supp will run circles around you. Nocturnes pre6 is already very vulnerable- imagine getting invaded by a Braum/Thresh/Blitz/Annie and not having flash.

No botrk- Botrk is considered a standard item on Nocturne, but outside of splitpushing or fighting tanks I don't see the point anymore

I mean the same reason you list for exhaust. Makes his dueling VERY powerful.

3
StringerLittleOPDiamond V•

I did most of the testing vs a page with AD reds and AS quints. Also tried full AS but only did like 1-2 runs with it. AS reds took about another second off. I think I need to do more conclusive tests with more than 3 camps cleared as I imagine once I but long swords the AS page would have a more noticeable edge. Regardless I can't imagine the edge is that huge and the damage difference even by level 6 is very noticeable (about 7% more damage compared to full AD page assuming an R Q with 2 autos combo and warrior completed before accounting for bonus AD on Q which favours arpen build more). AS page is harder to make comparisons to but for ganks AD > AS anyways early

I haven't had any issues with invades, I find most invade junglers can be dealt with by spellshielding a key skill since Noc obviously never needs to use W while clearing. In a 1v1 I beat essentially anyone with exhaust so the only real concern is multiman invades, which i've been able to avoid even when playing 5v5 games vs coordinated teams. Obviously no flash is a risk, I just think it's worth it

For botrk... duelling vs squishies is stronger with the arpen items over botrk generally. For tanks of course botrk is stronger but I generally don't find myself duelling tanks, in the event of a highly tanky team I can obviously adjust build and just go botrk.

1
Allonas•

Could you tell me ur full build path? Im very curious to try it.

1
StringerLittleOPDiamond V•

Pretty much the order that I wrote

Warrior-ghostblade-LW-DMP-other

Sometimes LW 2nd if enemies are easy to stick to without ghostblade as it's more burst + cheaper spike

2
ILetTheDogesOut•

I guess i would have to mess around with this build. I like noc a lot, but his kit has always bothered me a bit. It's pretty hard to proc his passive twice on a single camp early on so maybe the armor pen would help more. His W also prevents him from being rooted/stunned so maybe he doesnt NEED flash as much...

I assume this is a much more aggressive, gank heavy build?

1
StringerLittleOPDiamond V•

Ya it's pretty gank heavy, though you can certainly still powerfarm or duel vs enemy junglers. But with warrior + ghostblade + cdr in runes you end up with quite a low ultimate CD for repeated ganks with very high burst.

1
ILetTheDogesOut•

6 scaling CDR blues or full 9?

1
StringerLittleOPDiamond V•

Currently running 9 but might drop that to 6

1
ownagemobileGold V•

I'm interested to try it as well. Also I sometimes run triforce on nocturne. Expensive as fuck but arguably a lot stronger than gb

Also I know the high elo guy your talking about is dailypeach in na, and he never builds cleaver. But if you're running no flash, cleaver could help a lot with sticking power, and 400 health and 20%cdr is nothing to scoff at. I almost feel like cleaver is practically core on any ad bruiser just because of how nice all the stats are

1
StringerLittleOPDiamond V•

I don't see the point of triforce on Noc. Too expensive and it doesn't have CDR like ghostblade does

I'll have to try black cleaver as well. I really haven't had issues sticking to people but will still experiment.

And yes I stole the runes from Peach

1
ownagemobileGold V•

Ie is expensive but that was actually the go to carry nocturne build in like season 3 or early this season, ninjaken built it a bunch. Triforce gives a little bit more up front burst, gives 200 health, permanent attack speed, ad,and even the ap is okay on nocturne cause fear is a .8 ratio. But yeah sometimes it's a little pricey

1
StringerLittleOPDiamond V•

I just can't justify buying it when I can get brut + LW for cheaper

Once completed I'm sure it's strong and all but I don't feel sheen is that strong on him on its own, and if I wanted a Phage item I think I'd opt for cleaver

Will maybe try it in a normal if doing decently

1
TheJan1torDiamond V•

I don't understand why people build both Warrior AND Ghostblade on junglers like Rengar, Nocturne, Yi, etc.
I've tried it just to see what the hype is all about and it's been nothing but a disappointment for me.
I prefer Warrior -> Boots 1 -> Phage -> Boots2 -> Black Cleaver -> Titanic Hydra -> Dead Man's Plate -> Locket/Banshees/Maw/etc.
This build gives you the CDR you want early game for more ults, and the health you need to survive team fights mid game.

1
StringerLittleOPDiamond V•

I don't think Yi needs it.

Rengar/Nocturne buy it for a mix of high armour pen vs squishies as well as the really nice active MS (especially on Rengar). Also has the benefit of building out of brutalizer which is a really nice cheap powerspike with good CDR for champs that are heavily ult reliant for ganks. Cleaver is great for cdr once completed but phage doesn't have any

Somebody else suggested BC though and I'm gonna try it

1
EsNumeroUno•

I think scaling cdr isn't the best. You need at least 5%flat cdr or a mix of flat/scaling to more early pressure

1
felpz123•

Warrior is horrible on him, i did MUCH better when i switched to devourer.

0
StringerLittleOPDiamond V•

I really don't like devourer nocturne. You don't have the burst damage necessary to kill squishies and you don't have the built in tankiness to actually do sustained DPS in a fight. It's good for splitpushing and soloing drag and stuff but that's a totally different playstyle. I also loathe the devourer build path and hate how bad it is in terms of stats for level 6 ganks compared to warrior.

I thought devourer and warrior were sorta close, then they nerfed devourer and buffed warrior and now I think warrior is easily better on nocturne.

For a different playstyle maybe devourer would work better, but it's not for me

3
ILetTheDogesOut•

Honestly after about 150 games on noc AFTER new devourer, i hate it. Noc's passive doesnt synergize with sated devourer as well as other champz like Yi. Plus if you go devourer, it pretty much makes it mandatory to go BORK, which is a rather expensive item.

1
ILetTheDogesOut•

It's not horrible, just different. He scales off AD quite well, and warrior lets him gank early without farming. If enemy is running J4 and he started ganking level 2 and getting his team fed, it'll be pretty bad to go devourer, which can take up to 18 or 19 minutes to stack in a decently farm heavy game.

1