K-W difficult to navigate for newbies?
Posted Dec 3, 2015, 10:09 PM UTC
4573
King and Weber - parallel, except where they cross eachother three times and one renames into the other.
10
Where actually is the third? I've seen just North of Columbia, and near St. Jacobs, but unless you count the rename, I don't see the third intersection that everyone keeps talking about.
1
Well, you're right, I'm kind of double counting the endpoint intersections. Intersects with termination at St. Jacobs, crosses near Columbia, Weber converts to King at Fairway. 3 intersections.
Other confusing roads for newbies include:
- Park/Courtland/Fairway - the multiple renames, the fact that it ends just before uptown Waterloo, and turns 90deg as Fairway.
- The highway 7/8/85 - lots of curviness that doesn't align to already non-grid oriented major roads through the city
- The relationship between Highland and Queen - they intersect at 90deg but run close to parallel for most of their lengths
- University's 90deg turn and meandering flow through town, with intersections at other major non-parallel roads Erb, Westmount, King, Weber, Northfield
1
All you need to know right there....if it is a major artery, it will at some point change name, intersect with a parallel neighbour or usually, both.
1
I didn't know that Courtland/Park turns into Fairway. Although it's ironic that it's Courtland as it runs through Victoria Park.
Also, you forgot that University runs parallel to itself for a stretch.
1
Hah, nice. Actually, it's "Jubilee Drive" through Victoria Park, though. Changes at David on the East side, Devon on the West. Forgot to mention that - so it has 4 names! :)
1
IIRC the roads are this way because the area was designed by German settlers who put out the streets in a fashion similar to their homeland. The Brits liked their surveying and grids, which can be seen in Cambridge, while Germans followed topography more and preferred more circular routes.
9
Somebody mentioned Cambridge, I'm obliged to plug r/cambridgeont.
3
Galt is probably my favourite looking area of the while tri cities! You could send it over to Kitchener if you like. You can keep preston though.
2
My favourite theories are they just paved where the cows had wandered and made a path, or laid out the major streets while still hung over after a particularly good Oktoberfest.
8
Highland is a tease when you're trying to get downtown. You can be heading downtown for a few kilometers, until suddenly you're not.
8
"Is this downtown? Oh great I'm on Homer Watson again"
4
My favourite intersection is the corner of Westmount and Westmount.
8
I used to live in Toronto near Danforth and Danforth....seems sketchy.
1
Where is that one?
1
What you're looking at is 'modernist' suburbs- these gained popularity in post-war developments for how cheaply and quickly they could be built. These areas are tailored for car use, not pedestrian. The idea behind the winding streets is to create conditions that slow traffic and make driving more scenic, but they denny the intuitive aspect that the quickest way from one point to another is a straight line. The result is we've built areas that lack a 'sense of place' that orients people and aids in navigation. The sad fact is that this form of development is actually the norm in Canada- at least in terms of landmass.
tl;dr: You're right that it sucks, but it's way more normal than you think.
7
These areas are tailored for car use, not pedestrian. The idea behind the winding streets is to create conditions that slow traffic and make driving more scenic
That's supposed to be the case on the residential roads - all crescents and windy stuff so people don't use them when the grid-layout arterials are clogged. Northwest Waukesha, WI is a good example.
But for K-W, our arterials aren't even gridded! :-)
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Funny that I hear complaints all the time about the abundance of one-way streets in downtown Ottawa.
Your point stands though.
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Came here to say this. Ottawa is not the best example to use as an easy place to navigate.
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What is not easy about Ottawa? One way streets are not difficult to navigate when they are in a grid and the next street down is going the opposite direction.
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Obviously if you live there and are used to it. As a visitor it is very frustrating to see your target and you can't just drive there because it is one-way the wrong way. I will say though that my Ottawa memories are pre-smartphone/GPS too.
3
Ah I see, it must have been a totally different game pre-GPS.
2
I lived there for a year. Probably the most confusing area was the 417 that runs parallel to downtown. There are one way streets running along side the highway with off and on ramps all over the place, and it's easy to get really lost in there. I used to walk through the Lees area, and someone once asked me how to get on the highway. They had that on ramp closed and I had no idea what to tell them.
1
I've lived here for 2 years, and with the construction recently I kinda get lost trying to go downtown still. I know how to get to work in guelph, and thats about it. And that sucks for the city.
I'll never get over how if I keep driving on ottawa south, I end up west of my house....
4
From sunrise, I find the best way to get downtown is to go down Ottawa, left on westmount, right on queen, follow whatever that weeks detour is when you can no longer go any further on queen.
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21 July 2014. On King St E (near Dixon/Montgomery), Kitchener, ON, heading west at 5pm.
1
In Kitchener, the sun sets in the east. :)
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Is sterling and charles open? Highland is done now, so westmount to highland to sterling might not be a bad route.
1
all them old streets like 1st and 2nd and so on are in a nice grid, its just all the newer (1940+) stuff isn't.
3
That section, with the names 1st, 2nd, etc.. isn't actually that old. Those housing styles are from the 1960s. That subdivision was built around the same time the Expressway was a built.
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1939-1945 aerial photographs of the area.
overview. http://www.lib.uwaterloo.ca/locations/umd/project/images/Downtown_Kitchener.jpg
Specific area in question http://www.lib.uwaterloo.ca/locations/umd/project/images/1945IM17tn_002.jpg
In the first link you can see the whole neighborhood in question in the lower right section of the map. The second link zoomed on that specific area.
Theres a great book that was written by one of the local radio stations in the late 70's about the history of the region. I have a copy somewhere i'll try and find the name and info for you. Its got some great detail, dates, names and places. A lot of research and love went into that little book.
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Clearly I made a bad assumption going by the styles of houses in that area. Thanks for finding those images!
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It's ok. I know these images exist only because I read that book. Our region has a very deep history, I wouldn't call it rich, but we've had our moments.
A lot of them houses we are talking about have had major renos done to them in the last 30-40 years. My friend bought a home on 3rd and his whole exterior was redone in the early 80s. His house looks like it's from the late 70s. But once you go inside and see the basement and foundation you'll see it is a lot older than that.
2
I've lived here for 8 years and I still have no idea where I'm going most of the time, the ion construction hasn't helped
3
I'm the same way. I purposefully moved to an area that has everything within walking distance cause I couldn't be bothered trying to navigate. I can get into town, out of town and to and from work. That's in. Having used to live in Hamilton, moving here was a geographical nightmare!
3
I second that. Having everything ripped up all over the place at the same time is causing pandemonium, especially with the Christmas shopping traffic.
2
My goal is to go 90% of my shopping online this year
6
Damn good idea.
3
yeah, that also doesn't help the local businesses.
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I find this hard to believe. 8 years and you still don't know. That's not the cities fault.
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There's routes that I have memorised, I know some general areas. The problem is that the spaghetti layout doesn't lend itself to getting around.
In other cities if you need to get to the north east part of town typically you go North then east, or just north east.
You will have a general idea of where you are because of what direction you've been travelling in.
You can't do that here because streets don't line up in any coherent fashion.
1
Definitely no seafood restaurant there. I live right there. Am I blind and missing out on magical fish?
3
I live in south Kitchener. I can go either East or West on Hwy 85 and still end up at my friends house in North Waterloo in the same amount of time. It confuses the hell out of my girlfriend who is from out of town.
3
It's 2015, nothing is hard to navigate anymore. Google it.
2
I lived in kitchener for 2 years. I still don't know the city. I gave up and just never left the neighborhood. Now I live in breslau, I go to Guelph for everything because getting around kitchener is a huge fucking shit storm.
2
My head office(Alberta and Arizona) doesn't believe me that the construction is affecting out business. Maybe I should send them this? Haha
2
Not a newbie (I've been here for about 15 years) - I know where most everything is but it's difficult getting anywhere because of LRT and non-LRT related construction.
Where there is no construction, there is everyone else who is going around said construction.
So now I just leave town or go nowhere.
2
This is like a hundred times worse with all the construction right now.
2
Not a fan of suburbs, but definitely prefer bendy roads...
1
I've lived here for two years.
I have gotten lost maybe once or twice.
Use Google maps. It's not that hard to get around.
1
Not everybody owns (or even wants) a smartphone, though, or can afford the expensive option of an in-dash system on their car.
-1
90% of people have a computer with the option to print directions.
If you can't print, then you write the directions down.
Its not that hard.
2
Because fumbling through a sheaf of papers isn't distracted driving at all...
-1
You're just looking for shit to complain about.
Stop being a baby. If you don't like living in Kitchener just move then.
2
Nah, KW is easy to navigate. Start by getting off Highway 8 and going north on King Street East. When you get to the next Highway 8 exit, keep going straight onto Weber Street — don't try making the left and right to get back to King Street East here, because that part of King Street East isn't connected to the first part of King Street East. Instead, continue until you pass under Highway 85 (formerly Highway 86, and before that, Highway 85). Then turn left and right onto King Street East (which isn't connected to the previous two King Street Easts). Continue along King Street East, then King Street West, then King Street South, then King Street North. Then you'll meet Weber Street again; it's OK, you'll get used to it. Go a little further west on King Street North until you meet Weber Street, and then go right on King Street North. You'll now be heading north, but don't let that confuse you.
How can you be bored with a route like that?
Bless you for actually mapping that out.
I've saved your comment to read to others, amazing.
Holy shit, I never noticed that 3rd King St E section before. Why? Just why.
Before Highway 8 was widened in the early 2000s, the southern section of King Street East continued straight through that section (while Weber forked off to the right) and further along behind all the plazas up to where the 8-to-85 ramp is now. [Edit: King St E in 2000 before the widening; King and Weber and the 8 ramps met in a weird intersection.]
Originally, before 85 and 8, it was all one continuous road. (1963 via UW; that's 8 being built with the Fairway Road interchange at lower right.)
Pretty late to the party here, but I think it's amazing how rural Fairway was then... holy crap. The whole mall area is just a cornfield here.
Truth