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r/FFRecordKeeper•
Cupsbert

Players with Yoshimitsu - Do you fit Thancred into your party?

Discussion

With a physical multiplier of 5.92 4.92 divided into 4 hits, plus armor reduction better than Armor Breakdown, Thancred's Dancing Edge is the most damaging non-SSB, non-SLG soul break in Global pretty decent. If you have very few multi-hit physical SBs, this seems like a reason to try to slot him into your party. And heck, if you also have Ninja Chainmail then he has a backup AOE physical hit with 100% Slow attached. Even better!

(EDIT: My source was the very helpful FFRK.pdf, provided by u/MysteriousMisterP, however u/Enlir claims that the 5.92 / 4 in the pdf is mistaken and it's actually 4 hits at 1.23x for a total of 4.92. That lines up with Wakka's Status Reels, plus he's Enlir, so I'm inclined to believe him. That would make it 17% weaker than previously believed, though giving 50% armor reduction instead of Armor Breakdown's 40% helps to offset that somewhat.)

However, Thancred's skill set is notoriously awkward... Unless you're using him in retameta for Boost + Tempo Flurry, in which case he'll build so little SB gauge that this conversation is moot.

  • Support 3 = Status Busters and Intimidate
  • Celerity 5 = Tempo Flurry and Dismissal
  • Ninja 5 = Elemental scrolls and Shadowsteel for Sap-weak bosses
  • Song 3 = Rallying Etude and Mana's Paean.

No Support 4 means no Breakdowns, no Thief means no Stealing, no Song means no pseudo-Shellga/Protectga, and sadly... no Combat means no Lifesiphon.

In other words, even with 4 different ability sets, he's no Swiss Army Knife. He can't really support a mage group on his own, unless the enemy can be Intimidated or Blind shuts them down... in which case, you probably don't need Mana's Peaen very much anyway, do you? Rallying Etude is overshadowed by all attack buffs it doesn't stack with. He's hardly the only ninja, and Edge and Yuffie get Thief. And so on, and so forth.

In the end, it seems like the best use for him is in a Planet Protector physical party with a relevant Status Buster and Tempo Flurry, especially if the boss is susceptible to Blind and Slow; sub in Dismissal if you have R4 or R5 and the boss can't be slowed. Or, if you're a Hand of the Emperor party, HotE combined with Rallying Etude ain't half bad, right?

Admittedly, that's a little more useful than I gave him credit for before. Sure, he's not always going to be useful, but I think I'm going to try to find room for him in my dungeon parties. I'll use a couple Flurries and Busters to get through trash and build gauge, and then Dancing Edge all over the boss's face.

What about you guys, do you fit Thancred into your party? Is there some amazing next level Thancred strat I'm missing out on?

EDIT: u/puck01 reminded us that with Ashe's Runeblade or Terra's Enhancer, particularly with synergy, Thancred can excel at elemental Ninja attacks. Plus, hitting weakness with elemental attacks builds your SB gauge faster than normal skills.

Posted Jan 18, 2016, 10:32 PM UTC · edited

337
ilcasdy•

I have Yoshimitsu and Red XIII uses it more than Thancred.

8
Nikesera•

Same xD

2
EnlirWhatever.•

With a physical multiplier of 5.92 divided into 4 hits (plus armor reduction better than Armor Breakdown)

Dancing Edge's multiplier is actually 1.23 per hit, resulting in 4.92 total.

5
CupsbertOPWark Wark?!•

Wow, really? FFRK.pdf lists it as 5.92. So is this just a long-standing typo?

1
EnlirWhatever.•

Yeah, most likely a small typo. 5.92 would be a bit out of the standards of a regular SB.

3
CupsbertOPWark Wark?!•

Agreed, and thank you for letting me know. Post updated, and flagging u/MysteriousMisterP to let him know for future editions.

1
MysteriousMisterP•

Corrections are always appreciated. It will be fixed in my next update.

2
TeyahLife is short...•

Yes, I run a PP+HotE physical party and find a lot of value in Thancred. In my setups, he's usually the one doing the bulk of the damage. [Example: my setup vs U.Exdeath] (https://www.reddit.com/r/FFRecordKeeper/comments/3yrfiw/ultimate_exdeath_no_healing_master_clear_minimal/)

Some reasons I find him very useful:

  • Dancing Edge is very strong and carries a very long Armor BD (25 sec), so the rest of your party (and your next Dancing Edge) will do even more damage
  • Thancred is fast, and under Haste gets a larger benefit than others due to how Haste doubles your SPD
  • Due to his high SPD in Haste and Celerity load out, I usually give him Ace Striker and he builds 1.5-2 bars by the time boss reaches Weak Phase
  • 1st ability is always Dismissal. It's a great and always useful ability (so far), and it's easy to line up with a boss's ATB due to the fast cast time
  • 2nd ability can be for target score or a Support Buster, not a big deal since you'll be Dismissal/SB spamming most of the time anyway. (I imagine he'll get better abilities later on)

If you're blessed with multiple SSBs then yeah, Thancred's viability kind of drops off. If you have HotE or PP and don't have a bunch of SSBs, then I think Thancred can be a very solid pick.

4
CupsbertOPWark Wark?!•

I never honed Dismissal, but you're making it sound like I should bring my freebie up to R4 and actually give it a swing. Hmmm.

2
Nelo_Meseta•

I regretted my r4 Dismissal on my gf's account at first since I didn't have enough to make a full team. Now that her account has become mine I find it being one of my go to abilities for damage with the added bonus of saving my ass a lot more than I expected.

2
qwertyaasBasch•

I have both his relics and never use him. Maybe I should start to slot him in..

1
sirlemsipThere is sand on my shoes...•

I have Yoshimitsu and HotE but never bothered throwing the two of them together.

Might have to try it on...

1
TeyahLife is short...•

If you do, make sure to either run PP RW or Rallying Etude (on Thancred!) for multiplying buff power :)

1
Hylian-HighwindThis time, I will finish what I set out to do!•

I don't honestly try to use Thancred that often, though if I wanted to or had the flexibility I could fit him into PP parties with Celerity skills. The issue is more that I have other characters with decent SB's now that there are skills for him to play with, so he's a bit outclassed.

I find the lack of Thief skills odd. I haven't played XIV, but I understand he's more of a ninja fan whose actual abilities are closer to a rogue than a practiced ninja himself. Steal Power, much less Thief's Raid, would fix so many issues with his damage output.

To any JP players, does Thancred ever get any kind of Skill Buffs?

3
ShinVerusCertified Terra Fanboy•

Thancred is a Bard over everything else, he has not used his rogue skills for ages ever since Louisoix adopted him. He has trained Ninja with Yugiri, an Au Ra Doman (yes, Doma from VI) Ninja, once we met her though, or is highly implied to have had at least.

Basically, he was once a rogue, but after not doing anything of the sort for years, he kinda fell off it. He didn't even use his dual daggers until after he met Yugiri.

If anything, what's super weird is his Bard 3*. If there was any job skill he should have at 5 it would have been Bard.

1
Isredel•

The thing is that Thancred isn't actually a Bard (the job). Some people poke fun at him by calling him a bard (title, not the job) for trying to woo women, but otherwise doesn't have anything to do with buffing people with songs. And he's definitely closer to Rogue than Ninja. While he does exchange knowledge with Yugiri since their styles moderately differ, he still has no job stone nor uses Ninjutsu at any point in the game, solidifying himself as Rogue. The reason why you rarely see him use his Rogue abilities is because the Rogues' guild prefers to keep their fighting style a secret, so he uses gladiator skills up until that point.

1
ShinVerusCertified Terra Fanboy•

I don't think Job Stones, or even Job/Class distinctions in general affect the mainline characters. Reason why I say this is that Y'shtola clearly used Holy, and even improved upon it, and the White Mage storyline basically guarantees to you that you are the ONLY non-Padjal White Mage. And I don't see any horns on Y'shtola so she's not a Padjal. Hence, Y'shtola is a Conjurer, but she has White Mage-only skills, hence the lack of disparity.

We've never seen Thancred actually "steal" something, have we? Maybe his Celerity 5 represents the Rogue/Ninja fighting capabilities, but since he has never been seen stealing stuff, he didn't get Thief?

1
puck01☆ Zell ☆•

Yoshimitsu was actually the first relic I ever got (not counting the starter danjuro). I started playing halfway through the XIV event, and wasn't able to get either his or Y'shtola's MC1's. It was an incredibly useful SB to have starting out though, but I haven't been able to fit him in my party for awhile and still don't have his MC1 (I got Y'shtolas in VoM but needed 3 others I couldn't pass on so he's still waiting).

Worth noting though, if you have Ashe's Runeblade, or Terra's Enhancer, he can use those to increase his MAG for ninja scrolls (also Fabled Harp, Golem Flute, or Motor Drive), so he could become a bit more useful with those scrolls being released now. Having bard abilities he can use mana's paeon too to further boost the ninja scroll damage. If you did happen to have a mage party with Lulu's Focus SB as well, the ninja scroll damage might actually end up decent...

It was so much easier to work characters in when you had less of them and didn't want to bring them all at once... there's too many characters that I like and want to use, it's hard to give them all time off the bench.

2
CupsbertOPWark Wark?!•

Definitely true on the Runeblade and Enhancer. Also reminds me that he's the only Ninja until Ramza who can't use Thrown, so he can't put on a Mag Thrown weapon for a similar benefit... Sigh, Thancred, why you so awkward?

1
Crossfire281•

Yeah, it's rather silly considering almost every 1.0 cutscene in which he was fighting had him using throwing knives.

2
WMSC•

I have his SB and don't use him ever. It's not worth it, imo, compared to the other characters which can bring better abilities and skillsets to the table.

1
suke_sukeAdd Instructor Trepe to the list!•

When I bring a full phys party, Thancred comes in handy.

As for the abilities I stick on him, It's usually just Dismissal and Tempo. That way he can give me some breathing room by slowing and disrupting boss attacks.

Thancred isn't the most useful character and you kind of have to build a party around him. But if you have a lot of physical multi-hit type SB's he can definitely work for you.

1
CupsbertOPWark Wark?!•

For me it's the opposite. I only have two physical multi-hit SBs: Zack's and Thancred's. As such, I'm trying to find a way to fit both into my PP party, after an incredibly lucky 100 gem Keepsake Ribbon pull (for which I'm still eternally grateful to RNG).

1
raefzillaRydia (Adult)•

Yoshimitsu was the first genuinely useful relic I got, but I haven't had much use for Thancred since I got all my breakdowns and fullbreak honed. He's useful every now and then.

1
turnnoblindeyeEiko•

I just picked up glaive for Fang in this past event, isn't that actually a higher multiplier?

1
1010010010000•

I have tried to use him, and have almost always ended up disappointed. Only times I have used him and felt like he was really pulling his weight was the +++ fight and the ultimate fight in Edge's event.

Ultimate Godo, Ultimate Beatrix and Ultimate Seymour Flux can all be sapped though, so I figure I'll try to fit him into the teams for those 3.

Outside of Shadowsteel I haven't found him to be particularly useful, unfortunately. And if I didn't have his relic, I would almost certainly bring some other ninja.

1
SnazzyNinjaI did not come to treat with worms!•

Given his flaws, just think about useful he'll be when FF14 story dungeons begin existing (probably). I only use him since I got Yoshimitsu+. Dancing edge + advance = fun times :D

1
CriticalRejectionLurkin•

I used too, and then went mostly mage meta (tons of mage weapons). His weapon's SB is awesome but due to him not being able to use lifesiphon, I see little chance of him returning to my party anytime soon.

1
Kayotica22•

I hope you see this, but I disagree with just about everyone here on /r/ about Thancred. I have the holy trinity, and I build heavy mitigation teams without full break. I bring Thancred on ultimate fights often thus far.

I don't see why life siphon would be good on him at all? You only need to apply his SB once, and his celerity skills and speed make him hit like a truck. I bring dismissal for the off chance it procs for an extra turn. If I bring Mage meta, he can use Edwards harp for some magic, paired with a magic hat and magic accessory and hit fairly hard with the two ninja scrolls we have, especially against elemental weak bosses. Against omega he was hitting for just under 5k, with a very fast attack speed and buffed magic with mana's P. He can wield swords for synergy. He can wield fists for synergy in place of monks, allowing him to have a little more versatile toolkit. He has been, and will remain one of my favorites, despite the flawed bashing of him thus far. In the event he gets a SSB, I do see him pilfering off a little bit with lack of life siphon. However with the vast majority of us, simply having a SSB is a bit of a godsend, so complaining is super annoying.

1
CupsbertOPWark Wark?!•

Agreed on the last point; if I had even one SSB I probably wouldn't be trying to fit Thancred into my party.

Thanks for your point of view! It's an interesting counterpoint.

2
Kayotica22•

You are most welcome. I think people forget it's a single player game, and that advantaliate and Mage meta aren't necessarily the best strategy. I've found BLM/Summoner or two, WHM, Support/Celerity/ Hard hitter/ then anyone else for medals or variance to actually be the strongest team thus far, ESPECIALLY for ultimate fights. Unless you're swimming in gear for a realm, this strategy lets you use the limited strong gear on specific characters, while also having perfect options for elemental weakness, mitigation, AoE, trash clearing, and everything else.

Thancred fits the Celerity and the niche role. He fits often and I love to bring him.

1
BlurNeko•

You are about right. He can inflict statuses with Busters, Tempo Flurry and Dismissal. If you want to push out damage, you can even bring Flurry of Petals.

1
angusmirandaFriend Code: bZeE - SG•

I have both Thancred's Yoshimitsu and Ninja Chainmail. So when I was new to the game, I used him a lot. He was my star player, which explains my flair. Now, not much. I base my party member selection on who has/is going to get an MC2. So now that he is maxed out, he's just sitting at the bench. I kinda miss him though, but when he was active, I used him for the following:

  • Slow requirements, because Death Blossom always hits (based on memory).
  • Status requirements

I don't have magical weapons that he can equip for the Ninja Scrolls. I tried using the bard abilities with the free Madhura Harp equipped, but it just felt wrong.

1
Someone_Other•

I have Yoshimitsu+ and two Ninja Chainmails. The relics see near constant use, but I rarely use Thancred.

However a large part of that is that I generally use as many synergy characters as I can and then add in other characters that I need for certain skills, or need to level. I rarely actually need his skillset, although I don't think it's useless. Also I avoid using characters for whom I have good SBs because I don't want to cap them. I also have Thyrus and rarely use Y'Shtola to avoid hitting her cap.

1
Emorejndc•

I use to use him alllll the time. Then some new kid on the block came along and I forgot all about him. Well today I dusted him off and man o man WOW. I'm sure him hitting for 9k on each hit of dancing edge is a product of me trying to keep the damage of a SSB I just pulled maxed out but I was pleased. Status Reels + Rallying Etude + (FB?) = profit? I didn't think of him as a brusier since DE hit for so low but if I can reproduce this yay! I'm no good with match craft. What would DE damage be if his attack is only 284 under SR/RE/FB/DE etc?

1
smeezusQnwgh for JP Advance•

Not really. His best use with Yoshi seems to be for Retaliate, tbh.

0
interbuttKain•

I have yoshimitsu but the only time I've really used him was when I gave him Edwards harp for Ultimate Rubricante with manas paean and water scroll. But with tempo and dismissal he should always have something to do.

Mostly I just don't use physical parties. I never figured out how best to clear trash with them when mage/summoner aoes just do it so easily. And the mages do way more damage too, so it's not really his fault, it's that I don't get melee.

0