So I've been seeing this a bit lately in randoms... BLMs starting AoE on mobs with fire 2, without a fire 3 first.
What's the verdict on this? When I've had a parse up, the numbers are pretty similar, so I'm curious if there's been discussion on this.
Posted Feb 5, 2016, 2:03 AM UTC
My friend did this because his first bar was for single target and his second bar for AoE so that he didn't have to switch between bars all the time. I wanted to push him out a window.
I never tried, but can't you put the same skill twice on the bars?
Yes, yes you can. I have actually done that on blm myself, laziness ftw.
Assuming you get an extra f2 at the end, that's an extra 180 potency. You're losing 80 from the first, 30 from the second, and 12 from the third. Net gain of almost 60 potency (Trying to do this in the sustained aoe rotation after the opener would be far less effective since you only even cast 2 f2's. Even if you got an extra one, all 3 would be gimped and the whole point is getting to flare around the transpose cd).
Potency per second would be more important though, unless you only do your rotation once and everything dies at the perfect time.
f3>f2>f2>f2>flare = 1248p in 17s = 73.4 p/s
f2>f2>f2>f2>flare = 1066p in 16s = 66.6 p/s
I wouldn't recommend it.
Your AF buff numbers are wrong. You also can't really compare single-target pps of two different aoe rotations when one has single-target attacks and the other doesn't.
Agreed to the comparison point, was writing that in reply to a comment that got deleted. Some of the phrasing doesn't make sense since it was a reply to something else (and I'm feeling too lazy to change it), but it has appropriate info. Do you have a better source for AF numbers? I know af3 gives 1.8, but the only places I found that had specific values for 1 and 2 were here and here
Anyways, here's what I had. Some of the phrasing doesn't make sense since it was a reply to something else (and I'm feeling too lazy to change it), but it has appropriate info.
f3>f2>f2>f2>flare = 240+180+180+180+468 = 1248
f2>f2>f2>f2>flare = 100+150+168+180+468 = 1066
The big thing I'm not satisfied with is that the extra potency from f3 doesn't really matter as much as this makes it look since this is all the potency against a single target. If you make it 3 targets then you get 3264p for first rotation and 3198p for the second one (didn't calculate for scaled flare, but that shouldn't make a big impact) so it still comes out a bit ahead.
AF buffs are 40, 60, 80% for 1, 2, 3 stacks. You can test this pretty quickly by parsing F1 F1 F1 F1, Transpose, repeat until you get a decent sample size of F1 at different stack values (which will include UI I, and shows that UI I is 10% reduction).
I'm actually getting that the F2 spam rotation comes out ahead at 4+ mobs. Math ahead:
Flare total potencies: 468 (1), 889.2 (2), 1263.6 (3), 1591.2 (4), 1872 (5), 2106 (6)
F3 F2 F2 F2 Flare
3.5 3 3 3 4 = 16.5
240 180 180 180 468
540 aoe (excluding flare)
240 single
3 mobs = 189.31 pps
4 mobs = 241.89 pps
5 mobs = 291.64 pps
6 mobs = 338.55 pps
F2 F2 F2 F2 Flare
3 3 3 3 4 = 16
100 140 160 180 468
580 aoe (excluding flare)
3 mobs = 187.73 pps
4 mobs = 244.45 pps
5 mobs = 298.25 pps
6 mobs = 349.13 pps
For OP: It may actually make some sense to do this for your first Flare rotation. After that, you will start in Umbral Ice, so it would take 4 F2s to reach Astral Fire III. Flare is such a huge potency increase vs F2 that you most definitely want to F3 for the immediate 3 stacks.
Edit: Derp, scaled Flare : /
Those are numbers you'll get if you start casting as the tank pulls. If you start it before, the first rotation may very well pull out ahead.
This is because F3 in the first rotation can be cast before everything is balled up together, while the first F2 in the second may not hit everything if in the process of balling.
Swiftcast should also favor the first rotation.
Hm, good to know. :3 Thanks, I suck at doing the math side of this stuff myself.
Well mathed. Looks like this thread's pretty much done.
[deleted]
If it's similar single target, then it's probably for the additional early aoe dps
Guessing they might get an additional F2 cast from the MP that would normally be used for F3.
I've only done it cause I screw up somehow on the initial cast set up of fire3 and at that point I'm just like "meh, screw it, hopefully they die after a flare or two" lol
Sometimes do the same. Usually after I start casting Fire III and the mob ran out of range or sth. So then I just start my Fire II rotation and notice it. At that point you just say fuck it and roll with it.^^
I'd imagine there is probably a number of mobs where it's a DPS increase.
An example
First GCD: 240 potency vs. 100 potency x targets Second GCD: 180 potency x targets vs. 150(?) potency x targets third GCD: 180 potency x targets vs. 165(?) potency x targets Then we just call them even
Though this probably only matters in expert dungeons.
Nobody's done the calculus because AoE DPS is not "real" DPS.
Guilty of this as of ten minutes ago!
...though, we were in Haukke normal, so...
Fire 2 grants astral fire too
This is the answer right here. Tbh you're lucky when they actually use fire 2 on aoe pulls.
This. At least after 3 fire 2 they have astral 3 ;) much better than the BLM who do their OLD LVL 50 single target rotation with 5+ mobs O.o