r/ffxiv•
Sytev

STR Tanks. Bad Tanks. Different things. Often the same.

[Discussion]

Ok, so to preface, I was, and still am, an adherent of the 'max my group DPS' school of thought while tanking and healing. This post uses the word 'us' to represent the tanking community as a whole, and not any given individual.

That said, I am impossibly glad to be seeing the back of the STR tank meta. Because it was corrupted and festering.

Before 3.0, the aggression tank meta was about balancing survivability with damage output. The guidance was 'start with VIT, and then move to taking as much STR as you feel comfortable sacrificing your survivability for', not 'stack strength'.

Somewhere in Heavensward's early days, we forgot situational awareness and started treating all dungeon runs as having damage profile equivalences to Savage fights. We stopped caring about DF healing output profiles because we were used to our static's healers comfortability with our damage intake and ability to clutch heal us back to full with incredible regularity. We forgot that a dungeon's worth of trash wailing on us makes our health go down continuously, rather than in predictable spikes. We got arrogant, and we got sloppy, and rather than thinking, and caring, like we used to, we blamed our healers and DPS. The good name of aggressive tanking got lumped in with the turtles, because instead of teaching new and inexperienced tanks how to be aggressive tanks we gave them the easy answer, and then took complaints about their poor performance as an attack on ourselves.

I will still love swapping to Warrior and melting faces. My melting will be slightly slower tomorrow than today, but oh well. I will still be an aggressive tank. I will still push my personal DPS. But maybe now I'll remember the aim behind the aggression isn't to rub my ego, but to make my runs as fast and smooth as possible.

But for now, I'll raise my glass to the loss of some of the complexity in the aggression tanking meta, and celebrate the death of the STR tanking horror.

tl;dr: ding dong, the wicked witch is dead but her magic lives on

Posted Feb 23, 2016, 12:31 AM UTC

034
Keepitveryrealreal•

No.

No, no, no, no, no.

"We" didn't do any of that shit.

If there's one thing good about VIT being the ez mode best stat for tanks, its to stop hearing this tired argument. The tanks that stacked STR and knew what the fuck they were doing were better than tanks that stacked VIT and knew what the fuck they were doing. Bad tanks are bad tanks and suck.

/thread

18
silverfoxxflame•

While I won't argue with any of your points, I will say that the Shitty tanks who stacked vit weren't good but the shitty tanks who stacked strength because the forums told them to were WAAAAAAAAY worse.

6
ExKageKage Kiryuu on Balmung•

If there's one thing good about VIT being the ez mode best stat for tanks, its to stop hearing this tired argument.

I think I pretty much agree with this. People are going to stop being able to say "BAD TANKS. IT WAS A STR TANK UGH STR TANK" and it's going to go back to the core, bad attitude.

Bad players playing as tanks and being bad.

2
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
FaeraM'faera Ridal on Tonberry•

I agree with bad tanks are bad tanks, full stop. But (as someone who almost always heals dungeons) bad tanks who listened to forums and stacked strength without knowing how to tank were definitely worse than those who kept their Vit without knowing how to tank. In a way it shows at least somewhat of self-awareness that they need to give space to healers if they're not confident on tanking themselves.

1
valensk•

The bad tanks will still be bad tanks.

16
Hustlerbojenkins•

Stats switching to vit doesn't change the Meta(which is tanks and healers contributing to DPS in their downtime and itemization); it simply changes out accessories and stat allocations. It does get rid of STR tanks, but that is effectively meaningless, and bad tanks are still going to be bad.

6
Rhomagus[First] [Last] on [Server]•

I don't get why people keep saying tanks will do less damage. Does NIN, BRD, and MCH do less damage because they use DEX instead of STR?

-3
jaysaber•

The devs specifically mentioned that the tanks would be taking a "small" dps hit with the stat changes.

1
ArtficialFlvrzRita Artandus on Masamune•

Because they've straight up said that a full vit tank in 3.2 wont do as much damage as a full strength tank did in 3.15. It's a blanket nerf to our DPS that comes with them switching VIT to the major contributing factor to our attack power instead of strength.

1
hito-intus•

Heavensward Nerfed holy, I still see white mages blowing the fuck out of summoner and black mage numbers during trash clean up.

1
ArtficialFlvrzRita Artandus on Masamune•

What? I'm just explaining why people "keep saying tanks will do less damage" since he didn't seem to know. I welcome the change, i have no issue with it. I was just relaying what we've been told will happen. That IS why we'll be doing less.

1
Hustlerbojenkins•

with the theorycraft behind the ways they could implement the change based on what the devs have stated, people have mathed out why tanks will probably do slightly less DPS at the moment. It will probably get tweaked as we move forward to balance back where we are now, especially since PLD losing DPS is a way worse thing than DRK or WAR losing some DPS, and as far as I can tell this is a start on the long hard road to fix paladin to be more in line with the other tanks.

1
TTurtTimmy Turtle on Lamia•

My play style will change 0% really, the numbers might be a little smaller but otherwise nothing's really different.

3
HHTurtleTonberry•

Actually, I know one way my play style will change. I might be able to stay in Deliverance for longer periods of time.

5
hito-intus•

I'm just happy it will be simplified now between good tank and bad tank. That's all, black and white, no blaming gear.

3
ItariDeclare•

We didnt forgot our situation, the simple truth is: it wasnt necessary to go FULL Vit in ANY of the Content till 3.2. Why should i go full VIT if its not needed?

2
SevolSevol Lynriad on Leviathan•

ITT: Bad tanks and bad healers, that will continue to be bad even after 3.2

0†
DrazzanEmmalynn Tsukiko of Gilgamesh•

As a tank since launch, I whole heartedly agree. I never enjoyed the STR meta but had to in order to please everyone else or else face shit.

-2†
Hustlerbojenkins•

the meta isn't about str, it is about dps. the meta is unchanged.

6
DrazzanEmmalynn Tsukiko of Gilgamesh•

That I understand, but now I can wear the gear intended for me, created by the developers, for my role, without being persecuted for it.

2
Hustlerbojenkins•

that actually may not even work out to being true depending on how much parry we have to eat over more useful stats(or stats that actually do something, anything, worthwhile) to wear fending. it may work out to be more beneficial still to use some str accessories since str does still contribute to our damage a little.

1
DrazzanEmmalynn Tsukiko of Gilgamesh•

We can meld additional stats onto our gear now though.

1
Vesperplex•

This was one of the reasons I never picked up tanking. Being peer pressured into running a dungeon as fast as humanly possible and gearing myself out like it were savage for the sake of saving 5 minutes? No thank you.

-2
GJamesIII•

Tell me about it, at least I didn't have to pay for the damn equipment they wanted me to have, luckily my FC had over stocked craftsmen that gave good tanks freebies.

2
DrazzanEmmalynn Tsukiko of Gilgamesh•

Yeah for sure, don't get me wrong, I understand the place for having DPS, but the sheer focus on STR was just counter productive to the reasons I tank. Who doesn't like seeing large HP? Who doesn't like giving healers a little more breathing room when you pull half a dungeon? All in all a change I'm still very happy to see hit the game, regardless of downvotes.

1

VIT doesn't provide any survivability in dungeons outside of letting the healer DPS longer after getting the tank to max HP and going Cleric. The worst tank I've ever had to heal could have had full STR and it wouldn't have made a difference how hard he was to heal.

Bad healers need tanks to use VIT accessories in dungeons. Bad tanks force their healers to stay out of Cleric.

-3
FaeraM'faera Ridal on Tonberry•

letting the healer DPS longer after getting the tank to max HP and going Cleric

As a healer, I agree that max health doesn't do too much in the long run, but this is actually quite important. As a Whm, allowing me to get off that first cleric Holy without dying in a few seconds gives me much more leeway to pull off my whole DPS rotation before getting back to healing. As a Sch, not dying in a few spikes at the beginning allows me to apply 3 dots and bane (shadowflare and miasma II if the tank is holding very well). Having more vit really helps with this, and for both healers the biggest damage potential is at the beginning when everything is clustered and on high health for AOE. I don't know the calculations for whose damage is more important but vit can and does help with healer dps especially for the initial pull.

3
ItariDeclare•

Tanks have cooldown which they can reduce their dmg, but majority is not really using them properly. And the only buttons they use are 1,2 and 3....

1
hito-intus•

Yup, in a mob that is big enough to matter, full str, vs full vit, still dies in less than 1 gcd if they don't use any of their defensives.no difference

2
SlinkpitRagnarok•

/clap. I dont like STR tanking but i had to do if for progression but from tomorrrow i will be back to full fending

-4
Salso123Hiyula Ramu on Lich•

i didnt need to do str tanking for progression but i had given in to the pressure of the masses

ill gladly hand my str accesoires on a nail tomorrow and pick up my fending again

1
Muhkuhpowa[First] [Last] on [Server]•

as a fellow healer, i will /hug you when we meet in the DF!

-1†
Gatesunder[First] [Last] on [Server]•

Didn't bother reading the post; It's already irrelevant. What's the point?

-10