Hypothetically, if you were to give a new character the individual worst move of each kind (worst Utilt, worst Jab, worst Final Smash, worst NSpecial, etc) what moves would they have? Discuss.
Ex: Utilt = Brawl Ganon
Posted Mar 15, 2016, 2:16 PM UTC · edited
Technically, without a way to get Pikmin most of Olimar's moves don't do anything
if your next pikmin gets too close to the edge, they go AWOL and your moves don't do anything.
tfw all your pikmin suddenly teleport to the opposite side of the stage because you landed near the ledge
This infuriates me so much, if Pikmin weren't like this I'd probably play Olimar a lot more too :(
Dash attack is melee Luigi and it's not close
But anyhow, Luigi's dash attack is indeed terrible...
I used to main Luigi. My friends saw an accidental dash attack as the highest insult.
Real talk though, roy's dash attack isn't actually THAT bad, the animation just doesn't match the frame data. It has the same hitboxes and timing as marths, which while not amazing is a useable move.
are we forgetting melee dk's dash attack?
dks is probably worse
luigis is at least kinda active
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Melee samus usmash.
Melee sheiks down B kappa
Even taking memes into account, at least Sheik's down B is useful for recovery lol.
What would be the worst down B then? Melee Mewtwo's?
Disable is actually really good in certain situations for guaranteeing a kill at early percents if you have a shadow ball charged up or you're at the ledge. I main Mewtwo (in Melee) and while disable isn't super good there are definitely worse down Bs.
Like what? I'm not saying Mewtwo's doesn't have utility but I can't think of anything worse, at least in Melee.
Kirby's maybe? DK's?
EDIT: Like the other guy said, Ness's might be the worst as well.
Yeah it's a decent whiff punish move. Although you could get a grab, at higher percents it's also pretty good, like disable -> fully charged dsmash.
Probably ness's absorb. Or melee kirby's rock.
Din's Fire (specifically Melee Zelda's). Weak and utterly useless. Well, the majority of her moveset is useless, but still. Din's Fire is just the worst.
Although in PM you can do a couple cool things off of it, but I have to agree it's pretty bad.
dins is crazy good in pm
3.02 Zelda still gives me nightmares
I dont know. There are some pretty shitty side b's.
Din's fire has high start up and endlag, and the reward for hitting it is like no hitstun and 10%. You can't even use it to edgeguard
Yoshi's Egg Roll is pretty horrid. 30 frames of startup, no invincibility while in the egg and all this for 4% damage.
I know this game is also balanced for FFA's but even there Egg Roll is horrible.
Koopa claw
I don't know where you get that from. It might just be one of Bowser's actually redeeming qualities, along with his up B. It's probably not a great move, but it's very useful in a number of situations. Certainly better than the other moves you listed, and when compared to a useless move like Din's Fire it's just no contest. Klaw any day.
Koopa Claw is literally Bowser's best kill option in Melee
Kirby's side b is also pretty awful. High start up lag on the ground, and in the air it barely does any damage and doesn't even gimp due to low hitstun.
Oh shit, how could I forget? The 2% aerial hits from that move.
Little Mac is one of the candidates for worst aerials, while Pichu is one of the candidates for worst ground moves.
Thats a lazy way to cover most of the bases on this one.
There are definitely worse smashes than pichu's. His are at least usable. Same with his tilts, and jab can multijab reset and infinite like pika on PS.
Ness has a lot of worse ground moves.
Puff's dtilt is straight up garbage.
Ness's utilt and ftilt are garbage.
G&W dsmash is completely worthless.
YL's fsmash is pretty damn terrible. The first hit does set knockback that doesn't link to the second hit.
Samus's and ness's up smash are both pretty unusable.
Against anyone who can smash di reliably, Zelda's fsmash and usmash do almost nothing.
ness's up smash ... pretty unusable.
Ever heard of this? With 20XX levels of practice it can make Ness the best character in the game. Literally.
Thought it was set up with dsmash, my b.
Also, with 20XX levels of practice no one would every let Ness set that up lmao.
i guess we will never know until the year is 20XX
Yo Yo glitch hype!
(For real tho it's garbage lol)
Obligatory viewing material for those interested in the yoyo glitch:
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Ness literally has to abuse a glitch for a chance to be slightly less terrible.
^^^If ^^^anyone ^^^calls ^^^L-Cancels ^^^a ^^^glitch ^^^I ^^^swear ^^^to ^^^god ^^^I'll ^^^slap ^^^you
L-Cancelling is a crime.
I could see Pichu having the worst d tilt, but yeah her smashes are actually pretty decent
Nah zelda's, jigg's, and probably ness's are worse.
True, ness d tilt is booty
Ness's dtilt can multijab reset, and you can easily set them up to be at the perfect distance for Yo-Yo glitch, at which point you can setup a lightning jacket. This is really only relevant against characters without projectiles though, like captain falcon.
Plus this is like the move's only use, so yeah it's pretty booty lol.
Excuse me? G&W down smash is extremely good.
In melee? The move garbage, has like a 1 pixel sweetspot that doesnt kill.
ah, I see. I don't play melee so I wouldn't know about melee G&W
At what percentage does that sweetspot kill in Melee.
Melee Kirby has the worst fthrow and bthrow, since you can mash out of the animation. Brawl Ganon probably has the worst jab, unless someone in smash 4 has something worse than a frame 8 jab with meh range and 24 frames of endlag that can't even jab reset. It also just straight up doesn't hit short characters, so it has that going for it too.
Melee Zelda is up there for worst jab, frame 11, multi hit, doesn't jab reset, really low non comboable knockback, however it only has 12 frames of lag.
Edit: Grammar
ahem Palutena's jab
that can combo into grab
with rather decent range
thats palutena's best move, quick and first hit combos into grab
Doesn't Bayonetta have like a 9 Frame jab?
TBH I don't know much about Smash 4, someone there might have a worse jab than brawl Ganon, but it's the worst one I know of. The saddest part was that ganons still used it, his moves were just that bad.
But it's actually good if you land it
Rosalina has the worst Final Smash
Edit: It's probably Brawl ZSS now
Certainly a candidate for one, but that's not objective.
Olimar's was pretty bad in Brawl. If they missed the initial burial with the Rocket Ship, you could just spam sidestep and only take like 10%, and the crash landing is super easy to avoid. Even if they did land the burial, you could mash out pretty quick at low to mid percents and only take like 20 or 30%
There's also is Jiggs, which is basically useless against characters with a good recovery.
EDIT:
There's also Brawl Zero Suit, which basically just nerfs your character.
At least with Olimar's you could deal some damage, whereas with Rosalina and Puff, your opponents can just avoid it entirely.
I did forget about Puff (probably because nothing remarkable happens during it), so thanks for pointing that out.
Just cuz it can do 30% doesn't mean it will.
And even you do land the 30%, doesn't mean it's worth it.
Yeah, you're right. It does suck.
It's probably worse than Rosalina's actually. At least Roaslina's able to move around and knock opponents in the hitbox, whereas ZSS is stuck.
Puff on very small stages like Delfino flying and Halberd can be decent only because no one can now stay on the stage. Also Bridge of Eldin because the glitch. And for ROB, he can use that same glitch for ETERNAL CYCLONE LAZERS!
Also with some characters, you could just go above the top blast line and dodge Olimar's completely. Pit and Sonic are super easy to do it with.
For ease of doing this, I'm just gonna use Melee movesets.
Uspecial - Jigglypuff
Sspecial - Zelda
Dspecial - Kirby
Nspecial - Ness
Jab - Zelda
Utilt - Ganon or Bowser
Ftilt - Bowser
Dtilt - Zelda
Dash attack - Roy, DK, or Luigi
Grab - Ness
Dash grab - Bowser
Usmash - Samus
Fsmash - Peach
Dsmash - Mr Game and Watch
Uair - Zelda
Fair - Roy
Dair - Pichu
Bair - Roy
Nair - Zelda
Uthrow - Kirby
Dthrow - Bowser
Fthrow - Kirby
Bthrow - Kirby
Pummel - Pichu
Ledge attack - Pichu
Getup attack - Pichu
Other stuff:
Air speed - Luigi
Ground speed - Jigglypuff
Weight - Pichu
Fall speed - Jigglypuff
Jumpsquat - Bowser
EDIT: Also Zelda/Peach's traction and Mr. Game and watch's shield.
Hooooooly crap. Jumpsquat of bowser with air speed of luigi and ground speed of Jiggs. Now we just need the worst wavedash in the game and we have literally worst character
Well it'd be whoever has the worst traction, which is most likely Zelda or Peach since they have very short wavedashes.
I would agree with everything except I would change:
Ftilt - Bowser, His ftilt is a pretty good move actually. it's godlike at edgeguarding because it has a really solid launch angle and good power. At the least I'd say it's better than Zelda's.
Fsmash - Peach, Good disjoint means it be pretty effective as an edguarding move, granted that you don't get frying pan. I understand why you put it here, but at the least I would say it's better than Bowser's, who has almost zero chance of every landing an fsmash in a real match.
Pichu - Dair, Once again I understand why you put it here. It damages himself and doesn't have as good of knockback as Pikachu's. But it's still a good finisher and edgeguarding tool, and waaaaaay more useful than Bowser's dair could ever be.
But other than those 3 I can agree 100%
I agree with Peach's fsmash, it's not the greatest but I wouldn't put it at the bottom of the barrel on any day, granted you don't get frying pan
Even then, those damn RNG roulette Peach players already have a way to nullify the pan with a technique called panning, basically whenever you do an fsmash, the next fsmash after that is always going to be 1 of the other 2 choices and not the one it just did. So just cycle through till you hit pan once then you're good to go
Why is Ness grab bad? I've never looked into it.
IIRC has some of the worst range in the game combined with his slow ground movement means that it's really hard to land a grab at all.
As far as his punish off of grab goes though, he's pretty good. One of the strongest kill throws in the game and up throw chaingrabs on falcon and spacies.
But ye it's pretty bad.
I mean, when I think of "worst grab," I immediately think of this video.
I will never understand why they did that.
Yeah Yoshi's is pretty bad lol. It's arguable which is worse though since Yoshi's dash grab actually has good range and is relatively fast. The phenomena that happens in that video doesn't happen if the opponent is shielding as well so... Yoshi's is almost bearable.
They ARE both awful though.
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Bowser Utilt and Ftilt? No way man. They are both very useful moves for him. Not the fastest or most versatile, but there's gotta be something worse. Zelda's ftilt maybe? Also, his dash grab has to be better than Yoshi's z-axis shenanigans.
And together they form... CAPTAIN SHIT TIER.
Kirby Down B aka The best down B for my girlfriend.
Samus up smash in every single game is awful. At least now it's respectable. But it's still trash after receiving two buffs if im not mistaken
It's still bad, but I think it's now at the point where there are worse up smashes in smash 4. At least the hits link together now.
Off the top of my head, Corrin's up smash is pretty terrible.
Peach/DK aerial downB
At least DK can spike with his.
Didn't mention I was saying pre-smash 4 where both their downBs did nothing.
Sheik down special (Melee/Brawl).
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Zelda might be bottom tier in both Melee and Brawl
and sm4sh
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Oh, true
sheik's stupid fucking chain, even PM couldn't make that useful
Are you kidding? Oh man I love the chain. Just gotta channel M2K with it lol.
M2K begs to differ. It's definitely more useful than Mewtwo's, which is only useful for gimmicky KOs on Battlefield, but is otherwise unsafe on hit.
It was actually pretty useful in brawl iirc. I think there was a glitch that allowed the damage from u-smash to be "placed" as the primary hitbox for chain. People would gain so much damage super quickly.
The Chain Jacket glitch. It's a single frame window and if you use it without using a move beforehand it crashes the game, but if pulled off its ridiculously powerful. Its not just upsmash, it's literally whichever hitbox Sheik used last. So you can throw out a chain with DSmash or Home run bat hitboxes.
holy shit what? I never played vanilla brawl, I thought sheik was supposed to be awful in that gamr
Oh, she's quite bad (trust me, I mained her at one point), one of the lowest tier characters in the game. She just has access to this insanely powerful glitch. Part of the issue is the startup/setup on it is insane (shorthop -> 1-frame window release chain at apex). If you get it wrong sheik pulls the chain back in, so it's hugely punishable and there's no good visual cue like with Samus's super wavedash in melee. So yeah, it pretty much never showed up in tournaments. There is a video of someone killing M2K with it in P:M, however :)
Video of a potential application of the glitch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMdj-i5w6U4
Good recovery option too
Good for if you want to demoralize a falcon or Gannon trying to recover, however dibs fire is shit, can't even use it to recover.
In Brawl, it acts as a Tether, so it's alright there.
I mean they could have made it useful, but melee sheik is already a really strong character vs a wide variety of characters. I'm sure they felt they didn't need to try and buff it.
smash 4 samus jab, doesn't even combo into itself
Guess again. Patches bitches!
Actually as of tonight's patch I'm pretty sure it does.
at 40-70 huhu
Greninja has the worst counter in any smash game, but i'm not sure if it would qualify for worst down B overall.
Melee Pikachu/Pichu up-tilt is pretty bad.
Why?
Melee
Jab: Mewtwo
Dash Attack: DK
Ftilt: Zelda
Dtilt: Zelda
Utilt: Ganon
Fsmash: Young Link
Upsmash: Samus
Dsmash: G&W
Nair: Zelda
Dair: Bowser
Uair: Roy
Fair: Pichu
Bair: G&W
NSpecial: Ness
USpecial: Jiggs
SSpecial: Zelda
DSpecial: Ness
Grab: Zelda
Dash Grab: Yoshi
Uthrow: Sheik
Dthrow: Bowser
Fthrow: Kirby
Bthrow: Kirby
Ledge Attack < 100: Pichu
Ledge Attack > 100: Game n Watch
Getup Attack Game n watch
Spotdodge DK
Rolls Samus
Taunt Mario
Tech In Place: Mewtwo
Tech rolls: Pichu
Pummel: Pichu
Runspeed: Jigglypuff
Traction: Peach/ Zelda
Aerial Mobility: Luigi
Weight: Pichu
Dash length: Jigglypuff
Jumps: Zelda
Fallspeed: Roy
Turnaround: Marth
Jumpsqat: Bowser
Of course no walljumps, no zair
That's pretty much the worst character
Zelda's jab. IMO it's just really bad. It's like Ganon's, except slower and weaker.
Worst DTilt is really hard
Jigglypuff maybe? Hers is pretty rotten.
True
Sing for up b
Seriously... It's such a weird recovery.
Dude it ledge cancels tho
Not in smash 4 though?
At least we get this...
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