Ecuador hospital runs on Linux Mint

Just a small note to celebrate a Linux experience I've had today.

Recently moved to Ecuador and visited this morning the Centro de Salud in Catamayo, Province of Loja. It's a large gov't hospital/medical center.

As I met with multiple doctors getting all sorts of paperwork done, I couldn't help noticing that the login screen looked kinda familiar.

As they logged in to their PCs, the familiar Mint interface popped. They were running some old app for new patient entry, I suspect it was written in PowerBuilder (from what I remember from my previous ancient life as a PB developer many years ago), as the old-school Win95-style interface and L&F seemed strangely familiar.

Since PowerBuilder does not run on Linux, I can only assume they must be running it on Wine.

So kudos to whoever is the smart kid who is saving the people of Ecuador some $$$ and not wasting it on Windows. The government here does not have a lot of money to waste, so it's nice to see someone smart here utilizing the right set of tools to get the job done at the right cost.

This is the type of Linux desktop deployments we all want to see more of. No drama, just regular users using Linux all day to get their job done.

Posted Apr 5, 2016, 1:21 AM UTC

10595
onewiseowl•

This is the type of Linux desktop deployments we all want to see more of.

Speak for yourself. I'd rather not see doctors and hospitals run Mint. I'd rather not trust my medical information to a distribution that doesn't even have a security team.

38
cbmuser•

Moreover, I rather not have hospitals run software that does not meet any certification standards.

With all love for Linux and open source, installing an uncertified random Linux distribution in a medical environment is irresponsible!

16
jmtd•

Which certification would be relevant?

6
cbmuser•

There are certifications for medical equipment that makes sure you don't get killed because of malfunctioning equipment.

It sounds ridiculous but those laws are there for a reason, similar to nuclear power plants and aircraft.

3†
redballooon•

These are certifications for systems that actually run analysis and control life support systems. The computer where a doctor types in his thoughts, and even the anamnesis does not require certifications.

Source: Am working as a developer in precisely that area where functions are excluded because we don't want to be subject to certification.

10
jmtd•

It doesn't sound ridiculous to me; but it sounds like it might be specific to particular countries or jurisdictions.

1
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
johnmountain•

Qubes OS or bust!

0
Eldritch12•

I feel like "Mint security" is a new meme

11
monty20python•

I don't want them to run XP either, but you take what you can get. Not everyone is going to run OpenBSD.

6
cbmuser•

It's not the operating system that matters. It's that the whole system has been approved to meet medical standards.

If staff at a hospital just randomly installed Linux on their computers, these computers would no longer be allowed to be used at a hospital.

2
PyotrPan•

For all you know those computers could be on an air-gapped network

1
monty20python•

Well since this is Ecuador I'm going to go out on a limb and say that acquiring 'properly licensed/approved' (read: expensive) medical software isn't that cut and dry.

1
jfurmankiewiczOP•

PB saves data direct to a relational DB, not on the local PC, BTW.

5
onewiseowl•

How does that help me if they get a keylogger installed?

2†
jfurmankiewiczOP•

Outside of the highly publicized hack of their forums (which has nothing to do with the actual distro), is there some concrete example of default Mint insecurity?

Just curious. I am not saying you may not have a point, but it is based on the whole Ubuntu LTS core, so should be pretty solid in this area.

10
onewiseowl•

is there some concrete example of default Mint insecurity?

Not patching kernels, not having a security team, getting their distribution channel hacked.

but it is based on the whole Ubuntu LTS core, so should be pretty solid in this area.

Except they don't actually install things like kernel patches.

17
drakofrost•

Yes, there is. Mint doesn't update system critical packages by default, including the Kernel, which means that out of the box the system is vulnerable. Mint also doesn't use AppArmor or SELinux.

7
liarfryer•

Yes, there is: http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=2994

Mint is neat for a personal desktop or whatever, but it has absolutely no place in an enterprise environment where security is a concern. This thread on LWN has some pretty decent discussion on the security concerns of Mint: https://lwn.net/Articles/676664/

7
aelog•

Outside of the highly publicized hack of their forums (which has nothing to do with the actual distro)

It has everything to do with the actual distro.

4
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
XSSpants•

Their upstream is Ubuntu, which handles security.

1
onewiseowl•

Except they don't bother to install many of the security patches, like kernel patches.

Also, just because your upstream source has a security team doesn't mean you have a security team. What about the changes your distribution makes from your upstream source?

4
hyperthermia•

Hospital computers that have medical information aren't usually connected to the internet.

-5
onewiseowl•

aren't usually connected to the internet.

I have some sad, sad news for you...

3
pinkaholii•

i don't think that's true, my doctor is running XP :P

1
hyperthermia•

And he's connected to the internet because of XP? It's common to use XP because of old medical programs, but not even a dentist's XP computer is allowed to be connected to the internet because of the personal information they hold.

1
recklessdecision•

That's not true at all, I have plenty of family members that get their medical information emailed directly from the local hospital and doctor's offices here in Virginia. There's a plenty of rooms in doctor's offices with computer hooked up to the internet and their local network as well.

1
gutigen•

So they are not only gone with Mint which has no dedicated security team and lots of issues, but also use Wine which has even less security than Windows (it has full access to not only /home, but also X).

Can people stop using Mint, so it would finally die? It's really terrible distro by all means and standards.

31
BungusMcFungus•

Their packages are really fucked up... Installing virtualbox on Mint is a living hell.

5
pinkaholii•

You just install it from the repo... it works like a dream for me on mint.

4
BungusMcFungus•

I did, and it didnt work.

sudo modprobe vbox didnt work either, and the path for virtualbox was not correct so every workaround/fix I found on the internet was a lot harder.

I just ditched Mint altogether and switched distro.

2
Nyxisto•

Second this, same Virtualbox problem on Mint and also ditched the distro afterwards. There's tons of complaints about this online

3
pinkaholii•

Well.. that's a bummer.

1
placebo_button•

I installed the deb package from Oracle's website and it works perfect on my system.

2
pinkaholii•

Really terrible seems like hyperbole. It's an okay distro.

5
gutigen•

I don't know if getting your forum data sold at darknet and having botnet installed on your pc qualifies as okay.

1†
iKnitYogurt•

And both those things aren't really related to the actual OS - but rather their web presence.

Not to say that there are no points of criticism with Mint...

1

on meth mint it is.

1
pinkaholii•

So.. if they were worried about having an altered version they could just download it again.

If they had forum accounts i would recommend changing their password. :)

0
Sbutcher79•

What distro do you use or recommend?

2
gutigen•

Distros backed up more or less by big corporations or foundations like Debian, Ubuntu and official spins (Ubuntu Gnome, Mate, Kubuntu etc), Fedora, OpenSUSE. Those have dedicated developer and security teams of paid and experienced devs, unlike Mint which is driven by community of people who have no fuckin' idea.

For those who like DIY stuff Gentoo and Arch could work too (as an Arch user I feel obligated to mention that :P ).

7
andermetalsh•

Arch is a joke like Mint . No truly sysadmin would put that in a working system. Neither Gentoo except on an embedded and dedicated device.

The serious choice is Debian, Ubuntu LTS, CentOS, or Trisquel if you want a free but secure and updated system with security alerts.

1†
gutigen•

He asked about what distro I use or recommend, not what I would put on a enterprise workstation ;)

Yet I wouldn't call Arch a joke, could you elaborate on that?

2
saae•

ArchLinux is deployed in our school next to Windows… And we have an excellent sysadmin who chose to put Arch there. All programming is done on ArchLinux. I dunno what your preconceptions about ArchLinux and Gentoo are, but they seem wrong.

2
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
XSSpants•

A windows EXE won't know wtf /home or X is though

2
gutigen•

It doesn't have to, Wine exposes /home as a storage location to Windows apps, Windows malware can dig through your /home just like it would on C: ;)

As for X, it's just another attack vector that could be exploited (especially if you run X as root, which most distros still do I believe).

4
andermetalsh•

You can restrict folders with winecfg.

1
gutigen•

Couldn't get it to work properly since 2010 :P

2
PyotrPan•

I use it on my school laptop, it's the only distro I found that actually offers a fully functioning desktop. All the others seem to have changed to gnome or kde

1†
Dain42•

Those are both fully-functioning desktops. You may not particularly care for them, but that doesn't render them non-functional, just non-preferred for your use.

Besides, if you really just like the Cinnamon DE, you can easily install it via PPA in current Ubuntu LTS releases, if you want to, and you're almost certainly still better off security-wise than running Mint. (Here's another PPA that has support for the current release and current LTS)

Even if you just look at Ubuntu and Debian, both offer a variety of desktop environments that can be installed very easily; they just might not be the one that installs by default. And for people who like some other desktop environment installed by default, Ubuntu alone offers Xubuntu, Lubuntu, Ubuntu GNOME, Ubuntu MATE, and Kubuntu, besides the regular version.

I cant speak to Fedora, but I know that SuSE also offers a variety of desktop environments as well, even if KDE is more or less their default.

3
PyotrPan•

Hi, I mean changed to gnome after 2.6 and same with kde. I used Linux for quite some years, took a leave of absence and when I returned everything was different. 10 years ago, I'd probably find the process of learning a new desktop to be quite satisfying but now? I just want pop in the install media, click next a few times, and after 20 minutes have a usable computer with a desktop I can place shortcuts and files on. I don't want to learn a new desktop, nor do I want to fiddle with settings just to get one. This is exactly what linux mint offers, nothing more nothing less. As for the security issues, I have no running services, and I usually install updates once a day. Is this not enough?

1
Dain42•

Is this not enough?

Unfortunately no. Mint holds back some security updates to the packages they maintain as well as kernel updates. The packages coming from Canonical/Ubuntu's repositories directly should be fine, though.

Given that Mint has had some big data breaches, and also saw their distribution channel and iso images compromised, I would also worry about any repositories they host themselves, as those are basically just another set of web servers.

If it's the GNOME 2 experience that you're seeking, I'd recommend checking out Ubuntu MATE, which uses the MATE desktop environment (the same desktop environment as the MATE version of Mint that it sounds like you're using given your comments; MATE is a fork of GNOME 2), but which gets better updates and had some degree of official support for the developers and the distro from Canonical.

Personally, I find Unity (the default Ubuntu desktop environment) to be very similar in a lot of ways to OS X and Windows. It's fairly workflow compatible for me across systems for me, especially once I put the dock or taskbar at the left-hand side of my screen. But your mileage may vary, and I have a strong affinity for Unity, personally.

2
adelow•

Ubuntu now includes Cinnamon in its standard repos, so you can install it without having to use PPAs. Ubuntu 16.04 LTS will be released at the end of this month which means that you will soon be able to get Cinnamon in the standard repos of an LTS release.

2
casanova2124•

OMGZ then why the heck everyone suggests to install the extra ppa's for it ? I been using 16.04 so far and I have cinnamon and one update uninstall them. I believe they were old. Do we have to wait to release to use them or we can now ?

1
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
greenshrubbery•

You can install the Cinnamon desktop from mint on literally any distro. It's one command 99% of the time also.

1
rms_returns•

Indeed. I might have said it a million times in the past and I will still say it again: Spread awareness about linux desktops all around your neighborhood and friend circles. There is no attractive girl who will be coming on your TV screens insisting users to try linux (as she did for Windows 8). If linux desktop needs to increase its userbase, its the users, us technically inclined folk who need to spread the awareness in the masses.

17
Negirno•

Yeah.

I've installed Ubuntu on my sister's netbook because she had been complaining about Windows. At first, it looked promising (there were hardware acceleration and suspend worked) until it crashed because it seems that it somehow didn't took account of the low battery level. Needless to say, I had to reinstall Windows. Currently she users her smartphone and a good tablet for her computing needs.

Desktop Linux is great and there were a lot of improvements in the years, but it's still rough around the edges, and a lot of stuff either isn't or just half-supported.

And no, it's too late spreading awareness now, since the masses abandoned the desktop years ago, and for professional/power use, like gaming and content creating, it's still riddled with problems and compromises.

4
jmtd•

I really hope that "smart kid" has done something about the security updates default policy for Mint...

11
ivosaurus•

Well at least for now, they won't be falling prey to data hostage Trojans while running Windows XP.

4

I don't get these threads. I'm sorry but being so surprised and seemingly feeling validated from this kind of stuff more or less indicates that it is not an enterprise-ready solution, not that it is.

Anyway, companies and hospitals running it is nothing new. My secondary school ran it and that's more than 10 years back now and I feel old.

6
EggheadDash•

By "Familiar Mint interface" do you mean cinnamon?

1
andermetalsh•

Tell them to read this:

Por favor, Linux Mint es una distribución de Linux la cual no es apta para un hospital pues ha tenido fallos graves de seguridad. Les recomiendo pasarse a Debian www.debian.org/ si quieren un sistema fiable y adaptado a la seguridad que require su entorno.

Con el tiempo, podrían migrar su viejo programa realizado en Power Builder a Pascal www.lazarus-ide.org, el cual posee un modo rápido de instalación para Debian:

Elijan i386 o amd64 si tienen 32 o 64 bits segun el caso. Descarguen e instalen todos los paquetes Deb.

[32 bits] (https://sourceforge.net/projects/lazarus/files/Lazarus Linux i386 DEB/Lazarus 1.6/)

[64 bits] (https://sourceforge.net/projects/lazarus/files/Lazarus Linux amd64 DEB/Lazarus 1.6/)

Un saludo.

1
[deleted]•

[removed]

1
casanova2124•

gracias hermano/a :)

1
[deleted]•

I have worked in an hospital which used linux.

1
CaptainObvious110•

Awesome, people love to beat on a dead horse I see. It's a real shame indeed.

-2†

As long as the security problems persist the horse is still alive and deserves a beating.

6
CaptainObvious110•

Which security problems persist?

-1
onewiseowl•

Whenever they choose to do something about their more fundamental lack of concern for security, then I'll stop reminding people they don't give a shit about it.

3
CaptainObvious110•

Do you use Linux Mint?

-1
wee0x1b•

As they logged in to their PCs, the familiar Mint interface popped.

I'm sorry. I hope your information is (and remains) secure.

-6