Possible mechanic to differentiate UACs from ACs. And help make UAC2s more useful to bring along.

Discussion

Clan UACs are sort of in a really weird place. Jamming is a huge RNG factor. The Burst fire doesn't really make sense. UAC 2s are basically a waste of tonnage. Dakka is either OP or UP based on a number of factors, and the Kodiak 3 is proving that clan ballistics can be VERY powerful if given the proper platform.

I propose a very unique solution that comes in many changes.

  1. Clans favor hit and run and versatility. I propose that all clan UACs will share a common pool of ammunition. Similar to LRMs or Srms all autocanons will share a common amunition supply. Thus promoting the idea and improving the feasibility of wielding different types of UACs on your mech without worrying about losing 1 gun, and the ammo for the other gun leaving you with 200 rounds of uac5 ammo, but only a functioning UAC10. This would additionally normalize ammo efficiency across clan UACS. Bigger UACs will fire more rounds, faster.

2)Every projectile deals 2 damage. So a UAC 20 would simply fire 10 times faster than a uac/2. Additionally, the larger the UAC the larger the cone of fire on the cannons. These can be tweaked, but I'm thinking a very similar spread to the way the LBx cannons are implemented.

  1. Larger weapons are more heat efficient. Currently the UAC-5 is for some reason the most efficient weapon in the game. Not sure the rationale, but it's sort of silly to have this random curve of efficiency. Every where else in the game, the shorter the range of the weapon, the more heat efficient it is, except for ac/10 and 20s. If we start with the uac2 as a base line for damage/heat @ 0.80 heat, we can bump it up a bit to 1.0 heat per round, leaving it at a solid 2 damage per heat, still surpasing all other weapons in the game for heat efficiency at that range, save for the gauss rifle. UAC5 will use .7 heat per shot, uac 10 will use 0.6 uac/20 will use .55 heat per shot. These number subject to balancing/ change.

4)All UACs will have the same optimal range of 650m, and SAME projectile speed of 1200m/s. Since they will be sharing a similar spread to the lbx cannons, there will be an optimal range for players to decide when they're missing too much to be worth firing. The thing that will differentiate them is that the smaller UACs will maintain a much tighter cone of fire, with the uac2s having "perfect" aim as they currently do. This means that UAC20s, can still be used to effectively, suppress or apply area of effect fire to bunched up enemies, while essentially being a waste of ammo to fire at a single target at 600m, it would allow them to contribute in certain situation.

  1. Slight increase in DPS to account for increased face time while firing. Due to the spread, and the face time required for the larger UACs, A slight bump in DPS will be required to balance them out. I propose that the UAC 20, fire 3 rounds per second, bringing it up to 6dps from 5. UAC 10 will fire 2.5 round per second from 4 to 5dps. UAC5 will fire 2 shots per second from 3.01 to 4dps. UAC 2 will retain its 0.72s cooldown. While this may seem like a nerf to UAC2s, reducing their effective range, by allowing them to effectively work with the other ACs, the UAC2s become a poke weapon to efficiently make precision shots at range and against smaller targets, whilst not forcing the mech to juggle UAC2 ammo versus the rest of their weapon supply, they'll also be able to fire along side the other UACs without having to worry about the substantial difference in projectile velocities.

  2. Ghost heat. UAC ghost heat will be removed and replaced with a ramping exponential heat generation similar to the flamer. With the difference that each gun will heat and cool independently. They will be able to fire for approximately 10 seconds before increased heat starts to kick in. This will prevent a user from using a single UAC/20 and just drilling through enemies at point blank range.

Final thoughts on the change and experience. 1)While is doesn't matter, this would be a more accurate implementation of the lore's version of UACs. They fire a ton of bullets, and the shorter ranges of the larger cannons are justified by the inability to stay on target when firing at such a high rate of fire.

2)User Experience, people LOVE dakka. They like to fire a hail of bullets and watch their opponent's mech get shredded. You can see it by the use of firecontrol to create a rapid chaingun effect and people using 6xac2 KGC, or the 3ac2 shadowcats despite the fact that torso twisting and alpha striking is more effective.

  1. Getting hit by these being engaged at close range by a uac20 will be terrifying. Currently, it's like pop pop pop, and then that it. With this implementation the victim will feel like they're being shredded by a hail of gunfire.

4)Crits and damage spread. Everyone hates damage spread, but everyone loves crits. This will help differentiate UACs from ACs, in the ACs will be about landing fewer better placed shots, while UACs will be about hammering your enemy all over their mech.

5)No more jamming, but more facetime required. Nothing worse than peeking out, and having 3/4 or 4/4 uacs jam on the fire volley. That being said, being on the other end and having an enemy be able to alpha 80 damage out of 4 uac10s then twist away or duck is brutal. These will make UACs super sized machineguns instead some wierd burst firing giant cannons.

As usual, please don't fixate on specific numbers, just the idea of changing UACs from double tap vs jam, to extra face time for more DPS.

Posted May 25, 2016, 5:24 PM UTC

08
Majora_IncarnateQuicksilver Kalasa (Buttduck) - Steel Jaguar•

UAC2s would be worthless again, UAC10/5 combinations would still be the goto.

4)Crits and damage spread. Everyone hates damage spread, but everyone loves crits. This will help differentiate UACs from ACs, in the ACs will be about landing fewer better placed shots, while UACs will be about hammering your enemy all over their mech.

Actually, very few people love crits because the mechanics behind them are convoluted and stupid, why do you think people want increased damage over crit chance increases on things like LBX/MGs. You basically want to turn UACs into rapid fire LBX and equally as worthless. What you describe would also fit the RACs (if we ever get them) more especially since they would need some sort of balancing mechanic since they could have insane burst damage as is (and require a lot of clicks).

UACs are fine with the burst fire mechanic, the RNG jam just needs to go, and so does the double tap. Just make them fire a few shells with increased damage potential over their PPFLD counterparts with no jam chance and maybe some increased heat and call it done. You have a weapon that is harder to aim but has better damage potential and thus a decent trade off for a pair of weapons.

6
Gonzotron5000•

number 3 brings us back to useless UAC/2s again. They fire slower and are less heat efficient?

Otherwise this list makes alot of sense and would be much more fun.

2
deathcaptOP•

slower, less efficient, but near perfect accuracy. A way of efficiently spending amunition at range at the cost of heat and dps.

1
Decency•

I think your changes would just absolutely break UAC/20's. It doesn't matter if you have terrible bullet spread when you can pair one with 6 C-SPL's and be an absolutely ridiculous DPS machine with no real heat issues. I agree that it would be nice if someone could visually distinguish between being hit from distance by a couple of AC-2s or being hit by an AC-20, when (to me, at least) I can only really tell after getting down and checking for damage. But that's much less important than having sound scaling.

I'd like to see two changes to Clan autocannons:

  • Regular AC projectile speed increased across the board by ~30%.
  • Clan AC's use a pseudo-random distribution, for jamming, making them more predictable and less variant based on unlucky or lucky streaks- especially when multiple are in use. This looks really complicated but it's not- basically it just means that you're way less likely to get long streaks of both jams and of no-jams.

With that you would have pretty clear tradeoffs: UAC for DPS, AC for ranged poking/skirmishing, LBX for low facetime and crits.

2
Night_Thastus•

This is honestly a little interesting. However:

1: That's a lot of changes. PGI isn't a fan of making big, broad changes. (Even in cases where they'd be better)

Not only that, it's an asston of work for them. Small dev team = limited time.

2: Adding any kind of cone of fire is a no-no. Removes skill from the game. Players have brought it up many times over the years, and others always shoot it down. For good reason.

1
mangedrabbitDean of Shiptoast•

There are many good ideas suggested by the community. None have been implemented. It's best not to waste your time. Do something productive.

1
HlynkaCGUrbanmech takes the trash out•

I still think clan ACs should be single solid shot with a substantially increased reload time compared to UACs and LBXs.

1
Goombah11•

I just wrote several paragraphs a couple weeks ago suggesting the same thing. The game's current ship cannon ball ballistics make the game needlessly difficult to balance, changing all ballistics to rapid fire, even the gauss, would make things easier to balance.

The primary issue being ballistics are heavy, require ammo, but are heat efficient. This makes them good for DPS, but since they're broadside cannons, it also makes them alpha strike weapons. If PGI is having a tough time balancing weapons that are high dps and high alpha, that makes complete sense. It's poor design.

If ballistics were universally rapid fire, and lasers had longer burn times, the two would be more similar to one another. Very different , but far more similar. Being similar makes them easier to balance.

Making all ballistics rapid fire also diminishes the differences between ACs Ultras, and Rotary. Instead of functioning completely differently, ultras and rotary could just fire faster and use ammo more quickly, at the expense of being heavier, and hotter, or jamming faster.

MASC has a little bar that fills up during use. Guns get hot and expand with use. I think it would be intuitive enough and make sense to add a little bar for UACs and Rotary.
As the bar fills up they could generate more heat per bullet.
Or as it fills up they are more likely to jam, or when the bar is over 75% theres a chance per bullet it will jam. Or the second they hit 100% it jams. Or any time the bar is over 75% the weapon takes 2 damage per second, making it fall apart over time, like Legs + Masc. Something like an overheated or overused gun.
AC's and Ultras could have fewer / less of these limitations or penalties, maybe std ACs don't have a little bar at all.

This would leave cannons as DPS, little to no ability to alpha strike, and give PGI a couple of fine tuning knobs they could utilize to keep ROTARY 20 from getting completely out of hand for it's tonnage. Ac/2 might have a legitimate place to live in this environment.

1