Source
r/legaladvice•
Afg1415

[Update] HOA Harassment but we are not members of the HOA. (Texas)

Firstly, thank you to everyone who responded to my original post. I appreciate the advice.

Link to Previous Post: Original Post

I spoke with someone over the phone and they confirmed we are not members. However, they were contacting us on behalf of our neighborhood's civic improvement association, which is apparently different from the HOA. After looking over the closing documents for the house one of the pages that was signed was an agreement to keep the property up to standards set by this other company. So the HOA can hold us liable if we do not keep our lawn mowed, or fence fixed, but they can't issue citations for things like, a flag on the front of the house or 'beware of dog' signs on our fence.

Posted Jun 15, 2016, 3:34 PM UTC

34327
wiredinmycoffee•

So the HOA can hold us liable if we do not keep our lawn mowed, or fence fixed

if you are not part of the HOA, how is that possible? maybe the civic improvement association can go after you, if you agreed to be subject to their rules

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Dongalor•

Op would need to post the contract language from his closing documents. A 'civic improvement association' is usually a non-governmental non-profit with no power, but they can sometimes be a stealth phrase that some HOAs have rebranded themselves with since people hate HOAs so much.

If it is just the HOA, I can't imagine he could be penalized for not following their standards without either being a member, or having those standards and penalties outlined in the contract (which would effectively make him a non-dues paying member). If it isn't the HOA, I can't imagine he'd be able to be penalized unless they sue him for breach of contract, and they certainly couldn't place a lien on his property unless it was spelled out explicitly in something Op signed.

I think there's one of two explanations for this, either Op is misreading that language in the contract and they actually are part of the HOA, or the HOA is full of shit and its only power in the situation is reporting Op to the city for breaking ordinances.

53
mylifemyworld17•

So the HOA can hold us liable if we do not keep our lawn mowed, or fence fixed, but they can't issue citations

Sounds like it's the Civic Improvement Association that can hold you liable, not the HOA.

58
ghostinthechell•

Is it possible for the HOA to act as an agent for the Civic Improvement Association?

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mylifemyworld17•

I'd assume it depends how they are structured.

5
atomicthumbs•

Are you asking if it's possible for the HOA to be CIA agents?

3
Afg1415OP•

My understanding is that the HOA can issue violations on behalf of the civic improvement company. But I'd have to speak with a lawyer to verify that.

3
Dongalor•

You need to ask the lawyer what authority the civic improvement organization has to issue violations. Most such organizations are nonprofit "clubs", not governmental entities.

Unless they're connected to the local government, or you've somehow fallen under the purview of the HOA, they should have no more ability to place a lien on your house than the Salvation Army.

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Afg1415OP•

That's a good point. Thank you!

5
ElMachoGrande•

So the HOA can hold us liable if we do not keep our lawn mowed, or fence fixed, but they can't issue citations for things like, a flag on the front of the house or 'beware of dog' signs on our fence.

So, it sounds like it's time to tip the balance of terror in your favour, by doing just about everything they can't do anything about, until they see that it makes more sense to come to an agreement favourable for you.

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Afg1415OP•

I really don't want to start a war since we are one of the only houses in our entire neighborhood that does not belong to the HOA. I'd rather them just forget about us.

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Siphyre•

Wars have been started for less. Looking at you Helen!

3
FLHouse•

Although this is an update post, there may be a legal issue here that you may not realize.

It appears you may have effectively been tricked into joining an HOA without realizing it (with the "Civic Organization/Community Standards being an HOA in fact, even if they call it something else), or, if it is not actually an HOA, the agreement here may be unenforceable.

Even if unenforceable though, if you perform certain actions (for instance, by coming into compliance with the "community standards") you may unknowingly waive any right to challenge the unenforceability of the "separate contract."

There are many issues that could be there, and without an attorney to review the documents you have, actions you take could have adverse effects on you property rights moving forward. This is not intended as legal advice, but to caution you that this is the type of murky legal issue that a barred attorney in Texas should review before you take any action.

I strongly encourage you to talk to a real attorney, someone not on this sub, before you do anything.

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[deleted]•

[deleted]

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mushnu•

what's the difference between a HOA and a civic improvement association?

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elvendude•

A rose by any other name can sue you just as sweetly. It's all in the contract. So the difference is all in what the documents you sign say.

1
leyebrow•

Do you have the closing documents from when you bought the house? Just because you aren't paying your dues doesn't mean that you aren't a member of the HOA if it's in your purchase paperwork.

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[deleted]•

[removed]

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LocationBot•

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Discussion Post: https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladviceofftopic/comments/4o7wc8/update_update_hoa_harassment_but_we_are_not/

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-382
silverwolfer•

Why can I comment then?

17
Cherveny2•

Shhhh, hopefully they won't notice :)

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1fg•

Still unlocked?

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Cherveny2•

Nope. Your comment does not exist. Neither does this one. :)

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zombicat•

Mods need to answer this question.

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stubing•

Can automoderator get to the point where he can only post every 10 minutes if there are enough downvotes, or are moderators excluded?

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iagox86•

Wait, what? I love reading the discussion in the updates!

What's happening with r/legaladvice? It seems like the moderators are acting like a HOA themselves :)

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kiss-tits•

Damn, burn.

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