Source
r/hoi4•
Harfyn

Why is British Raj a major faction member?

Question

They are a puppet government of the British, they shouldn't be the only faction member left fighting the world war after both France and Britain have capitulated. I finished the world war in 41 and I'm going to have to spend the rest of my time slowly naval invading British Raj until that massive wall of manpower and land capitulated? Bullshit. If Britain capitulated, the Raj should get an event- or the person who beat the British should- that allows you to release all puppet countries or something

Posted Jun 19, 2016, 2:25 PM UTC

7258
Sildee•

Yeah, it doesn't really make sense. There should at least be some kind of civil war in the British Raj when Britain capitulates.

34
klngarthurLiterally Hitler•

The majors system needs some rework. Right now the game will assign major status to, at least, the top 7 nations by IC plus faction leaders on the first of each month. This leads to a situation where knocking out one major can turn one of their allies into a major, thus prolonging the war. This can be easily gamed in either direction to prolong wars intentionally or end them early.

5
williamfbuckleysfist•

I thought every member had to capitulate good to know

2
Wild_Marker•

Japan has a focus for it but i don't know if they use it

2
AuraofMana•

I used it, and it didn't do anything. I ended up conquering the whole thing myself. Not sure what i did wrong...

5
Ieatyourhead•

I believe the focus just puts a national spirit on the Raj that boosts fascism. Then, there is an event which will trigger if support is >30% to start a civil war between the Raj and "Free India".

However, the UK gets a focus where they promise independence to India, and if they take this focus, then the civil war is not able to trigger. So that's why nothing really seems to happen.

7
Gyvon•

Plus, Japan can only take that focus if England no longer has control of Singapore. Since Japan's the one most likely to take Singapore, you're already in the neighborhood and the Raj isn't that hard to conquer.

2
Wild_Marker•

But i think the uk needs to get the focus before Japan, otherwise they can't start it if Japan has already put the spirit on the raj

1
L3tum•

Exactly. I had that thing going off a second after British Raj capitulated. Meaning the boost in popularity was high enough for a coup. The remaining British Forces there just conquered the 2 provinces owned by "Free India" and British Raj regained all their territory, leading to me reconquering them with the UK and France and the Netherlands having shipped shit tons of units to their newly acquired partner. Fuck that focus, it almost destroyed me if I didn't have 300 units on my main island as garrison haha.

1
williamfbuckleysfist•

Why? See Churchill's speeches.

1
[deleted]•

[deleted]

11
HarfynOP•

But at least Japan is a major country with... an independent government. It makes sense that they hold the faction up as the final tentpole. British Raj on the other hand are fighting for their former oppressors?

9
Vaperius•

The Raj is for a starter; a British Government. They are basically an extension directly of British power in Asia rather than a true pippet.

11
[deleted]•

[deleted]

2
HarfynOP•

They probably are going to have to switch how the peace system works to make more interesting treaties. In your situation you should be able to offer Japan peace and allow them to keep certain holdings or something and they should totally accept cuz the war is lost. But it's set up to be essentially black and white now.

2
[deleted]•

[deleted]

3
L3tum•

Agreed. I'd find it nice to have a peace system like in...can't remember. Maybe Vicky2 maybe Total War, but that you essentially include in the peace offer something like "You get Australia for sure" and that will boost their value of agreement with that offer based on the value of the offered country/province. Gdi, so many modding ideas, I need moah teim!

1
Ritmas•

British Raj tbh should be under direct control of UK anyway, paradox made it otherwise probably because for the reason you mentioned(and didn't bother to make it work) or not to "overwhelm" players with huge lands.

1
HarfynOP•

Maybe have it start under British control and then have choices to keep it as a colony or puppet. And if you keep it as a colony there might be costs like a slow resistance buildup

1
Tundur•

I think you're mistaken. The Raj was a mix of local rulers and colonial authorities. The local rulers benefited greatly from British rule bringing stability and commerce, and the colonial authorities had massive amounts of British and Commonwealth troops and police to rely on. Indians volunteered in staggering numbers to fight for the British.

While the independence movement was huge and seemed inevitable, there was still a lot of support for British rule and the inertia of the vast land would keep things together, especially in war time. India contributed men, resources, and materiel to the effort- the metropole falling would actually increase the resources available to them in the short-term.

I would say the best way to solve your frustration in a plausible way would be to have a high Fascist influence lead to Princely states declaring independence bloodlessly. The Raj can then decide whether to crush them or let them go.

8
HarfynOP•

I get that it was a British run government, it's just silly to me that they're the only ones left fighting the world war. Indian citizens would not be rushing to free the UK from German occupation- they would in fact probably be happy to end the war if they got to keep their land plus be independent. In other words, how is their still support for British rule when Britain has capitulated? It makes sense for australia, Canada, some of the others, but India would not be the last fighter for the allies

2
Cielle•

Indian citizens would not be rushing to free the UK from German occupation- they would in fact probably be happy to end the war if they got to keep their land plus be independent.

Historically, they weren't going to get to keep their land and be independent. Japanese mistreatment of POWs and civilians in South Asia didn't much help endear the Axis to India either. And then there's the fact that the British had incredible power stationed in India in their own right, even without a network of loyal local rulers backing them up.

Bluntly, modern attitudes toward colonial rule were not the dominant political force at the time. Many of India's people, especially the ones holding real power, had much more immediate concerns. Is it so surprising that they might prefer Allied cooperation over Axis collaboration?

5
HarfynOP•

I mean of course I believe they would be more likely to collaborate with the allies. They were on the side of the allies historically. I'm just saying if the war was actually lost, they would be more likely to negotiate than fight to the bitter death. However the argument about the British having their own strength there is compelling. Maybe an event that has a chance for a civil war or UK main gov taking over Raj, or neither and it could be like it is now, but I think some more attention should be given to it. There should be events for each outcome and many outcomes. For example, what if Japan did occupy the land but was Ahistorically gentle in their occupation? Thus endearing the Indian people them. I dunno, there are many options and right now it feels silly for the Raj to be the last bastion of the allies and there being no event confirming they are even a major faction member at all

2
Van_Tuber•

. . . and if, which I do not for a moment believe, this island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our Empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British Fleet, would carry on the struggle, until, in God's good time, the New World, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old.

8
AemArr•

If I recall correctly, were Britain to have fallen to invaders in WWII, the British government planned to flee to the Raj.

7
HarfynOP•

Which would be a cool event if it actually happened... as it is, the gov stays the same in the Raj and the British capital is currently in singapore

2
MikeMontrealer•

No, the contingency plan was to evacuate to Canada, at least according to any account I've read.

2
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
txarum•

there really needs to be an option to end a war early. once the enemy has truly superior numbers and most of your allies have fallen then it makes no sense that a nation would want to keep fighting. they should atleast have a option to leave the war. then the enemy can decide if they should be allowed to.

3
IcelandBestland•

The reason Germany first started bombing Britain was to try to peace them out of the war. They almost did it too.

5
SpartanDRJJ•

Playing as Germany with 3-400 divisions I had over 1000 enemy divisions on my western front alone. I still managed to win. :3

1
Drtacopower•

Makes sense to me after London falls George and everyone up and moves to India

3
Gadshill•

This actually happened to Brazil when Napoleon was threatening Portugal. Haven't read it yet, but here is the book you could read on what happened. If you would like the spoiler read the summary of Pedro I of Brazil here

2
MrUltraGumby•

When New Zealand gets to be a major is even weirder

2
Ajanissary•

All of my none allied runs that I have finished involve a naval invasion of some combination of the Philippines, Australia, and New Zealand. Honestly the only problem I have with the current system is that I do not understand what the threshold to be considered a major is. Otherwise the mopping up stage seems reasonable to me just maybe not the most enjoyable part of WW2.

1
kinginprussia•

It generally isn't a major member until mid '40, early '41. But if Germany can't execute Sealion before then, it makes war with the Soviets much more (dreadfully) appealing. So basically what happened, which is pretty smart design.

1
AdrizedGeneral of the Army•

Puppets shouldn't be able to be major faction members tbh

1
DeoxisYT•

I think there should be a tweak on peace/war mechanics so you can actually end the war without spending 3 years fighting. If my ally Hungary invades Romania for one piece of land and we take it, I shouldn't have to spend 3 years fighting France and the UK once Romania has fallen.

1
domtzs•

well, this is what factions are. WW1 started with Serbia.

1
DeoxisYT•

What I am saying is you basically have to do as much as you can before world war 2 starts and then you are stuck in a war for the rest of the game and barely get anything from it. It should be a LOT easier to peace out someone in the war if things aren't going well and if the other people have capitulated.

1
domtzs•

as a guy that plays minors a lot, I feel you; occupation penalties can hit you pretty badly if you base IC is something like 13 civ industry and you want to get some decent armies going. However it keeps from making the majors Axis powers overpowered, so I guess they have some trouble balancing it all

1
Mish58•

It should make sense that the Raj are inclined to defect to the axis if Britain aren't doing well considering many Axis members were countries that felt wronged by land taken from them

1
Fwendly_Mushwoom•

Because the British government planned to flee to the colonies and continue the war even if Britain itself was conquered.

1
HarfynOP•

Which would be a really cool event if it happened ingame, but it doesn't. Instead, the Raj becomes a major faction member and has no change in leadership

1
Gzav8•

Yeah that's bullshit. I had to Alexander my way through Greece, Turkey and Iran just to get to the Raj because I had no navy whatsoever.

Duno if Major Power is a IC hardcap they reach or a % or whatever but it's just BS

1
HarfynOP•

Should be a war participation threshold, and also no puppets should be the final member unless there is some event involving the main gov moving there

1
Gzav8•

Agree

1
Moe-tastic•

wait you have a problem with operation sea lion? well just send in 6 paratroopers into london then run them amok britain. there is no one around southern britain. Also fuck the raj

1
HarfynOP•

No I meant it was too easy already

1
[deleted]•

[deleted]

0
luciusetrur•

Its like when Arumba defeated Raj and UK and just as taking Ireland... Canada became a major power. Hilarious stuff.

0