Friend called me out... poetically

Feedback Received!

I used to write a lot, for the past two years I haven't. He wrote a poem saying he'll "carry my torch". I was slightly offended, here is what I wrote back. Feedback appreciated.

 They say the word for not changing is "death."
 You keep throwing stones together in hopes of a spark, 
 pinching your fingers to hold glowing embers but a brief sigh
 will return you to the dark. 

 Friend, you cannot carry a sunset. 
 Friend, you cannot carry a forest fire. 

 Two stones smashed into flickering shadows that dance
 against the cave wall you are chained to.
 Your tongue is a rug burn and fingers rubbed raw from tracing 
 the same line in the sandstone.

 Friend, you cannot carry a sunset.
 Friend, you cannot carry a forest fire. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/OCPoetry/comments/4roijq/afterglow/d53v94x https://www.reddit.com/r/OCPoetry/comments/4rsh4y/tell_me/d53vgpw

Posted Jul 8, 2016, 4:38 AM UTC · edited

210
Raws98•

Friend, you cannot carry a sunset. Friend, you cannot carry a forest fire.

Man that's powerful, you showed him. I like especially like and get those lines. Make sure that forest fire keeps burning.

2
biogirl52•

That opener though. The word for not changing is "Death" - so true. If you do not evolve, you die.

Love the power of how you cannot "take" those experiences with you, just live in the moment and feel them.

2
Provencia•

Interesting parallel to Plato's cave allegory.

You have got some nice imagery that alludes to one of your main points, that is you cannot carry a forest fire. Perhaps write another stanza alluding to "you cannot carry a sunset"?

2
keepitsaltyOP•

I'm glad you caught that. He is a philosophy major so it was a slight stab at that.

That's a great idea. I will see what I can come up with.

1
straight_in_at_101•

The first line really grabbed me. The entire piece is very effective at creating a sense of futility. When put into to context of your retort to your friend, it's very powerful and grandiose. Well done!

2
walpen•

(NB: in talking about this poem I am ignoring your explanation of the context)

I like the use of imagery overall. Fire is a strong a metaphorically rich image. The first stanza establishes a clear image of the addressed subject attempting to light a fire with sparks from bashing stones but having his feeble attempts blown out. I am fond of how the third stanza takes the iamge of bashing stones and fires and uses them in an image of the cave.

The main problem I have here is sonic cohesion.

If we talk about the cohesion, we can divide the poem into the following chunks:

  1. The opening line
  2. The image of trying to light a fire (L2-4)
  3. The refrain.
  4. Establishing image of the cave (L7-8)
  5. Tracing in sandstone (L9-10)

These parts really don't cohere very well.

The first line of any poem can be very useful. The line

They say the word for not changing is "death."

suggests to me a number of things

  1. There is a narrator who has heard what 'they say' who will respond to this claim
  2. The poem has to do with stagnation and possibly death
  3. The claim will be modified/overthrown. (Owing to the use of "they say" which puts a sharp separation between the narrator and the claim in question. He obviously thought that the claim is important/interesting enough to report but not credible enough to claim credit for it by saying it directly.)

Unfortunately, none of these is followed up on. The refrain suggest the narrator is the subject's friend, but the fact that the narrator is just dissing the subject and has no other opinion/interaction with the subject makes this relation unclear and weak. The idea of stagnation is exemplified in the first and third stanza (the subject keeps trying to light a fire, is repeating the same lines), but it is not explored and its connection to death recieves no further attention. Because death is not explored, the claim is never jeapordized. It seems clear that the narrator is accusing the subject of stagnating, but this stagnation seems to be just a complaint. The problem here is that the first line promises that the poem will say something interesting about stagnation, but the poem depicts stagnation without actually exploring it.

To clarify, my complaint here is that the opening line gives a false impression on the topic of the poem.

The refrain also is disconnected from the other ideas. While the lines are pretty striking, and they carry over the fire imagery, they don't relate to the other ideas. Carrying a sunset is something is something it is literally impossible to do. Carrying a forest fire is actually technically possible (you could pick up the entire forest) but not humanly achievable. So even with the refrain there are some tensions.

A refrain should complete or comment on or advance the body of the poem in some way. But both of these lines to me boil down to "You are trying to do something beyond what you can actually accomplish." But none of the body of the work gives the strong sense that he is trying to accomplish something difficult. The first stanza also addresses failure, but the most salient features there are repitition and stagnation not the magnitude of the ambition.

The second stanza does not seem to have anything to do with ambition or failure. Indeed, the point of the cave allegory is that the prisoner's ambitions are achievable but completely valueless: they try to describe the shadows on the wall. The subject is stagnant here, but he is not described as failing either once or multiple times.

(As an aside, the third stanza is by far the strongest. The image of the cave rendered vividly and "Your tongue is a rug burn and fingers rubbed raw from tracing / the same line in the sandstone." is both a nice detail and a sonically strong sentence.)

So while I like the individual lines (excluding L1) well enough, this is a case for me where the whole is less than the sum of its parts. I get three entirely distinct complaints about the subject

  1. He keeps doing something that keeps failing
  2. He is trying to do something beyond his means
  3. He keeps describing things that are not there (or more generally, doing something of no value).

These don't form a coherent message. These don't give me a good idea of this person's character (particularly because the poem contains no non-metaphorical details about this person). These don't say anything about stagnation, death, ambition or failure.

2
keepitsaltyOP•

This is great, I appreciate you taking the time to do this. I'll take it back to the shop and rework it with what you've said in mind.

Do you think it might be more effective instead to remove the 2nd refrain and have it not be a refrain at all through out the entire poem?

2
walpen•

No problem. Yeah I don't think the repetition of those lines adds a huge amount, so it's a good idea.

2
MeenaDuprix•

Very well written, and not much to say that hasn't been already besides I hope you and the friend stay as such!

2
reggaemylitis34•

well, if he's calling you out you gotta poesy battle him

1