Let's talk about smurfs and their KDA.

While playing with high elo smurfs, I've noticed a trend: they have a very positive KDA, even on seemingly outrageous picks (AD Heim is one example I can remember), lots of kills, low deaths.

Why is this? Is it because they know the limits of themself and their enemies? Do they have strong mechanical ability? Have they mastered the art of trading? Is it a combination?

Also, is there something to take from this to bring to our own games?

Thanks.

Posted Jul 15, 2016, 11:00 AM UTC

752
punciaPlatinum III•

Smurfs can play so much better mainly because they recognize their enemies' mistakes and they know how to abuse it.

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[deleted]•

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UltraFireFXOPBronze IV•

As I mentioned to puncia, would you instead use the word 'vulnerabilities'? They know the vulnerabilities of themselves (such as AD Heim) and cover them up whilst still abusing every given vulnerability of their enemies.

0
[deleted]•

[deleted]

7
Contrite17•

Or they will make plays that require them to significantly outplay the enemy for it not to fail horribly because they know that they can since they are not at their level.

1
CloudClamour•

Yes and no. It's not just about playing into the weaknesses of a champion. Its also about playing into the mistakes of a player.
Example- AP Heim is a very strong counter engage champion with absolutely absurd pushing power. Almost unbeatable in a flat 1v1.
If the player steps out of his Venn diagram of hatred, the player has made a mistake- the high elo players can abuse this and punish it.

2
UltraFireFXOPBronze IV•

Instead of 'mistakes', would you instead say 'vulnerabilities'? (e.g. used an ability on wave, has lower auto attack range, is out of mana, support is roaming.)

0
LOLstarinna•

Technically the things you listed aren't mistakes. The mistakes occur after, when low elo players don't adjust their positioning and die to more experienced players. When you have spell on CD your positioning needs to reflect that you are at a disadvantage until they come back up. I.E. Cait uses E and now has to play farther back or risk being punished for free/die.

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punciaPlatinum III•

I think mistake is more appropriate. What you listed are mistakes, mostly. If you have a lower attack range than your opponent you can make the mistake to misposition and take a bad trade (he can auto you 3 times while you only manage to auto him once). Your low range is a vulnerability only if you let your opponent abuse it. Basically all you have to do in lane is play passive and avoid trading in general. You staying in lane without mana is also your mistake. It becomes a vulnerability once you make that mistake.. and so on.

1
klemle•

They just have a better overall understanding of the game, they know when they can fight, and when they can't, they CS better so they have more money for items, they can manage waves, and most likely dodge more skill shots than people at your ELO. There's not really much you can take from this outside of how much there is to learn about the game.

13
[deleted]•

One thing I realized when playing with lower elo and less experienced friends, is that once you get better at the game you start to see some "lines" or "barriers". What I mean by that, is that in a trade/ fight or whatever, you'll subconsciously see some areas or edges where you are allowed to go, and some where you aren't. Basically you usually want to stay right on the border, but lower elos, either play too far in the "allowed zone" and do not contribute enough, or walk into the "forbidden zone" and take a lot of damage for free or die.

12
Eric_SenpaiPlatinum I•

I played a bunch of Civilization so in my head I call those areas "zones of control". I squirm in my seat when I spectate a low level game any everyone is just walking willy nilly within range of each other's spells, or within auto attack range. Like, AHHHHHHHHH, you don't have to be there, whyyyyyyyyy?!

5
drgradus•

I'll look bot lane from time to time, thinking, "You won the trade and used your cooldowns! Back off a little, farm, and don't let them use their spells on you! You won the trade!"

Or the post dragon teamfight. We got the objective. We can leave. There is every reason for them to attack us and zero reason to stay and fight.

2
whitevelcro•

I've noticed this from watching my own replays. I not only get caught out and die pretty frequently from positioning too aggressively, but I also get "spooked" and back off farther than the safe distance, leaving me too far away to jump right into a fight and deal damage.

The first was pretty obvious to me because I play champions that have no reason to ever die, so any time I died I was too far in the "forbidden zone." But I only recently noticed that I also walk too far into the "allowed zone" and will sometimes miss out on damage because of it.

Good players know exactly where the line is (and will be) and play exactly on that line constantly. They are as aggressive (proactive) as they can possibly be while remaining safe. It's just as big a mistake to be too passive as it is to be too aggressive.

4
drgradus•

As a Singed main, I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm gonna go proxy behind those barriers.

All kidding aside, one of those barriers is knowing when to initiate and end a trade. Low ELO trading is hard to differentiate from going all in.

Let's take a simple example. If I see Darius whiff his Q, I'm going to run past him, get pulled in, AA, and flip-AA him towards his own turret. Thus endeth the trade. His window of retaliation is minimized and I traded well. If I want to go All In, I'll flip him towards my turret and ult, slowing him with my goo. Then I'll just do my normal Singed shenanigans (goo flips, brush jukes, running around randomly poisoning him and farming) until he's dead or I get ganked by the jungler I totally should have seen in my ward while I was tunnel visioned staring at our fight.

2
SnuggliDiamond III•

The thing you have to remember is how much of this game is punishing mistakes and macro play. You can have someone in silver who has the mechanical prowess of someone in challenger, but they just make AWFUL decisions.

The silver and challenger player might play exactly the same as each other and both get a kill in X situation... the difference is that the challenger player knows the steps that need to happen for him to be able to get into that situation, the silver player might not.

8
Soren59Platinum I•

Yeah, this. I've had games where I lose lane on my low gold/high silver ELO smurf due to making mistakes/getting outplayed mechanically, but ended up winning by putting on splitpush and rotational pressure which the enemy team didn't know how to deal with.

3
colesyyDiamond IV•

i've literally never seen a low elo with good mechanics

players who are useless everywhere else but are mechanical gods can normally make it to plat/low diamond because they just dump on their laner every game.

0†
unicow7Diamond III•

Did you just imply that someone in silver might have challenger mechanics? It's be a stretch to say they have diamond mechanics, let alone challenger, zzz

-2†
SnuggliDiamond III•

I mean, I was 1 game off masters and i'm fucking trash at this game mechanically

5
Zwyft•

And I fucked a master-tier player in lane when I was silver. That means very little.

2
KingKicker•

You would be surprised at how many low elo players have good mechanics. They really just make bad decisions and don't know how to completely abuse their enemies mistakes.

2
unicow7Diamond III•

https://www.reddit.com/r/summonerschool/comments/4kh4in/bronze_5_to_gold_5_in_5_days_misconceptions_and/

I've played through low elo multiple times and nope, I haven't met a single player who's ever impressed me mechanically. I talk about it under misconceptions in my post

5
xZelinkaChallenger I•

Any good mechanical player would be at least Diamond despite their decisions/knowledge.

3
boythinks•

Did you consider that your mechanics might be much better than diamond?

0
Sivness•

It's a hyperbole... jeez.

2
Uproarlol•

Lol never met any low elo player with mechanics that are found in even diamond.

-2†
SnuggliDiamond III•

Lol I lose lane on my gold smurf sometimes and I've been 1 win off masters promos.

5
vLuna1Diamond V•

Damn that happens to me too and it gets me thinking 'holy sht im so bad how am i diamond'. Kinda relieved to know it can happen to anyone.

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SnuggliDiamond III•

I have a better winrate on my main than on one of my smurfs.. super awkward

2
NMareszPlatinum V•

I've noticed a trend

Of course you will "notice" a trend. It's like comparing a beginner to a professional. Who do you think will score more points in basketball, you or Lebron? Who do you think will have a faster lap time on Nürburgring, you or Michael Schumacher? Who do you think will have not only a faster time but also better accuracy you or a Navy Seal?

You really can not try to describe what the difference is because literally everything what they do is better.

So converted to League, every mouse click, decision, ability use man just every single thing will be better than yours (if we compare real high elo to bronze at least)

5
abdullahazazUnranked•

Well you named most of the stuff there, I wouldn't say they have mastered the art of trading, I mean at every level people can improve, extreme example is faker who trades much better than any other midlaner individually by fully challenging people on their last hits while also carefully staying outside of ranged minion attack range. But yes smurfs tend to have better knowledge about these concepts than newer players.

I don't know how long you have been playing the game but just keep playing and learning. Of course taking a break when losing and watching some educational league streams helps too. I had played 400 ranked games in season 3, 200 of which were spent between bronze 5 and bronze 4 for me, and then I really focused on improving instead of winning and I made it gold 5 by the end of the season. I kept the mindset and by season 4 I was Diamond 5 and season 5, Diamond 3. So just keep playing, enjoy the game, focus on improving and watch some videos too here and there if you have time.

3
Huflungpu2Diamond IV•

It's literally everything you mentioned. When I used to smurf in bronze I would constantly get 20+ kills per game with almost no deaths. I knew my damage. I knew the enemy's damage and how well they would sustain hits. I knew how to mechanically outplay.

There's other things tho that deal will micro efficiencies such as getting to places faster/better pathing, as well as knowing where to be at the right time.

One of the most important things, however, is the ability to recognize the mistakes of others and captalize on them.

Oh yeah... Warding and Map awareness.

I could literally write this post and make it 20 pages long but u get the idea

2
Ravenflow-•

If they are high elo smurfs then they are just overall better. It's like asking why they are higher ranked. It's usually the combination of all you mentioned. They are generally stronger mechanically but thats not the most important. Knowing your and your enemies limits is. They just know when they can be aggressive and when not, when to all-in, when and how to trade. That leads to better decisions, lower amount of mistakes made which also means lower deaths as well as punishing their enemy mistakes which means more kills. It all comes from game knowledge, practise and experience. You can try to learn something from these players, just see what they do in certain situations and apply it to your gameplay.

1
Karmoon•

They have experience and knowledge.

They know how people will react. They know what champions are capable of.

They've often played many more games so can predict situations occurring before lower-level players do.

As to whether they've 'mastered' anything that's really dependent on the level of their actual account. If you come across a masters/High Diamond level player who's smurfing, then they are basically playing a different game.

But everyone below that is prone to making basic errors. Never give up hope. It is hilarious to see a platinum player cry in post-game chat "I'm in platinum, i destroyed you in lane, you don't deserve to win!"

I've actually had a high-level smurf take me aside after a game (where he destroyed everyone) and give me a lot of tips.

1
TyphoonCane•

Very good at recognizing when they are stronger and fighting when that is the case.

1
DarthLeon2Diamond V•

They know they're way better than their opponents, so they just play super aggressive and constantly force their opponents to try and outplay them, which they obviously don't.

1
CommandoYi•

it's because their skill level is well beyond that of the group of players they're playing with

1
ScientistSquid•

A smurf is somebody playing below their actual skill level. They have better KDAs because they are better. There's no "magical ingredient" that makes a smurf have a higher KDA, they're just better than who they're playing.

1
wunderbier456Gold I•

the answer is yes to all your questions

if there is something to learn from theses games? sure, this is high quality gameplay for you to watch

1
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
THEDoughBOI•

It's a combination of all the things you said. They understand the steps they need to take to win a game, and succeed in doing so consistently.

1
czikfs•

KDA isn't usually about how many kills you can get, it's about how many deaths you avoid. That's why Janna and Lux (for example) traditionally have extremely high KDAs. When smurfing it's often possible to outplay what should be a death into kill or trade.

1
whitevelcro•

Is it because they know the limits of themself and their enemies?

That's pretty much exactly it. Even if you're playing an absurd pick like AD Heimer, if you know exactly what your enemy can do, you can anticipate it and only take trades and fights you know you can win. There will be a lot fewer of these if you're playing something really weird and off-meta, but all you need to be able to do is recognize them and take advantage of them when they come in low Elo. In high Elo, you may never get a single opportunity for a fight that goes in your favor if you're playing a weak off-meta pick, but in low Elo you can just abuse your opponent's mistakes to win.

1
RuCat•

Mostly it is about getting ahead and keeping a lead. In higher elos, you must capitalize on every small mistake, so you develop knowledge about what's strong and what's wrong. Take this to low elo where people still struggle to focus on lasthitting, how could they be aware of you setting up a cheese? People let you get ahead all the time, and even if they get ahead somehow, they never keep their lead and throw or get outplayed in the next situation.

An example for toplane: Trundle (smurf) versus Tryndamere Trundle has better runes/Trynda starts with suboptimal runes Trundle invades and Trynd doesn't guard, Trundle takes away 2 small golems from blue Trundle trades a bit with Trynda, hits level 2 from first wave and all-ins, Tryndamere doesn't realize he cannot win and dies before 3 minute mark. From there, he won't ever get back into the game...

1
AbyssalFate2944Diamond IV•

You can literally cs half the available minions and still be double the enemies cs in Bronze elo. When you're able to get 90% of the cs however, and you just focus on that... After 10 minutes you'll most likely be at around 90cs, and they'll be at around 40, if that. Keep it up and at 20 minutes you'll be near 200cs, and they'll be at 80/100. At that point, no matter what you're playing, you'll crush them, as you're around 6/7 kills ahead of them, gold wise. On top of that, add in the fact that you can easily kill most lane opponents if you have decent damage foresight, and then it's even MORE gold.

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UltraFireFXOPBronze IV•

Yeah, I was on this forum and was reading the chart of available minions and I think there was a general rule where killing 10 minions/minute would net you approximately 90% of the minions that spawned in the lane, I rarely see anywhere near this, more like 4 a minute, lmao.

1