Regarding the test map. Protoss players, what would make you play the map more? What changes would you like (if any)?

Master 1 Protoss here:

Playing protoss in this mod feels very frustrating.Thus it is no wonder that most protoss players don't like to play this mod. Most of the protoss changes feel like nerfs, while both zerg and terran received buffs.

PvP didn't change significantly and most games are over before lategame, where some changes, i.e. new tempest, blink dts and carrier, can be explored. The only difference visible is the reduced vision on the adept shade, which feels very awkward. In summary playing PvP in the test mod isn't worth it. Luckily there basically no protoss opponents.

PvZ is the match up that plays out nearly as without the mod from the protoss perspective. With the significant difference that you will lose more often and lose to lesser players than you are used to. The reduced adept shade vision weakens glaive attacks, which is fine, but reduces the capability of early scouting as well - and perhaps more importantly - it feels very strange. Additionally there is the warpprism nerf, the hydra and the baneling buff. All shifting balance in favour of the zerg, which inevitably leads to the feeling of frustration as protoss player regardless of the actual justifivations of these changes. While the carrier might be better, I personally don't like playing it, as the resulting game is neither fun for me nor my opponent.

Playing against mech in PvT seems interesting on paper, as it lets you explore new situations and new playstyles. But the first thing you are likely to experience as a protoss player on this test mod is getting destroyed by a reactor cyclone opening. If this opening is executed correctly by the terran player, it is nearly impossible to hold and if you hold it you are likely behind. While it scales badly towards the lategame, the new cyclone is insane vs toss in the early and midgame. They kill everything including buildings in a blink of the eye. Instead of mech, we will most likely see stronger 1-1-1 builds coming up in TvP. Weirdly the mech player is able to be the aggressor in TvP... shouldn't it be the opposite? The Stalker became basically a no-build unit in PvT - even a viking wins a 1vs1 vs a stalker, thus reducing the protoss options drastically. Maybe mass carrier is the goto build in PvT, but as stayed before it doesn't produce interesting games.

You asked what will make me as a protoss player, play this test mod?

Well, despite testing new changes I would like to see less one-sided changes in terms of balance compared to the live version which is arguably quite well balanced. I would loved to see the mothership core being removed and gateway units being redesigned to compensate. I don't want see more spells and active abilities in the protoss arsenal - no blink dts, no storm on tempest. We already have the most active abilites of all the races.

The consensus among most Protoss players is that Protoss got the shaft in the redesign, to the point that it is essentially a joke race. It's not any one change to Protoss itself (except Shade Vision) but the multitudes of buffs to the core units of Terran and Zerg that make it an uphill battle from game start. It's not fun to play the Test Mod as Protoss because it's essentially like playing with a handicap.

Edit: Yeah, yeah, bring on the downvotes, I knew this would happen. Protoss could build literally only probes and this sub would still hate them.

Altho the map offer something interesting like playing vs mech, there is not enough things to experiment with as protoss.

PvP -> basically nothing has changed, you just mass adepts and hope for absurd disruptor shots

PvT-> Playing vs Mech is actually very fun. Taking over the map, keeping the terran on its toes and juggling with multi tasking is very nice. Everyone approaches it differently. Some go for blink, some go for stargate so phoenix can deal with cyclones easier, some go disruptor drops with warp-prism speed and do tons of zealot bombing. The cyclone is not a interesting unit, would be better if it were more similar to the Vulture in terms of ground attack speed and attack animation.

PvZ-> There are so many things from zerg that can mess with Protoss, baneling health change is huge in the bling/ling/ravager style, the hydra buff is useful but I would rather see a decrease in resource cost 50/50 or 25/75 would make it more feel more swarmy. There is basically nothing that Protoss has to do differently or anything like that, unfortunately NaNiwa said once something along those lines: "pvz aint that bad plenty left to figure out like when to make 10 or 8 gates with adept attacks" .And please, change the hydra sound... it feels like the hydralisk is hitting you with spits from a pipe or something.

This may be a controversial opinion, but it doesnt change enough, when i played it was expecting to play a completely different game, but it's largely the same.

Also protoss basically has nothing different, so i would normally offrace terran and protoss for fun, but not really much point in doing that if one of them has barely changed at all.

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I play all three (random) but I don't enjoy Protoss on the new map. For a start, there changes are uninspiring.

I don't think PvMech is that bad in macro games. I actually always lose vs Protoss when I try to macro mech lol. But I think there is no question that Terran will find really strong tank timings (especially with liberators still being OP and buffed cyclones) that will be insanely difficult for Protoss to hold.

PvZ feels like a mess though, neither banelings nor hydras remotely needed straight up buffs for this matchup... Encouraging Carrier skytoss is also bad for the matchup, I hate playing vs Carriers when I am zerg.

I still think Protoss would be ok if they just toned back the unneeded buffs (Baneling, Hydra) and tone back some of mechs bonus dmg vs their units. I also think buffing zealots BEFORE charge would be nice. Giving two of the only units in Protoss that didn't have an ability new abilities (especially uncreative ones) is really bad imo.

I switch around between protoss and random.

Typical PvT: Terran turtles (maybe some cyclone push before that) to Mech while I take the map and mass carriers. Get bm'ed about how air toss is op.

PvZ got even harder since banelings die less easily and hydras have more range, essentially buffing every composition Zerg could go for.

PvP is basically the same so there is not much to try out.

More detailed criticism of the changes:

• Blink DT's are a joke that nobody asked for and they are pretty useless.
• Tempests could be ok like that, not tested them enough. They are very supply heavy so it's hard to say if they will be useful to fight liberators or tanks with their ability
• Love the speedy zealots
• Adept shade sight reduction might be fair but imo it's too much. I'd prefer a larger cooldown on the ability instead so you can use it for scouting while nerfing all-ins. Protoss early game scouting is hard enough as it is.
• The carrier change is ok but it's not that important for me.
• Cyclone is too strong, especially since buildings melt too fast, could be even more of a problem for zerg.
• Planetary fortress + tanks make it really hard to attack terran on the ground. If they buff tanks maybe removing/nerfing PF's would be good.

Some changes I'd like to try (to be understood as a combination):

• Move hydras to hatchery tech but with severe nerf + upgrades at lair tech
• Reduce queen range again
• Nerf corrosive biles a bit
• No PF
• Scrap the cyclone and give terran an anti-air mech unit (one that just attacks, no gimmicky lock-on like thing). Single target, not too strong not too weak.
• Reduce reaper grenades to 3-5 per reaper (not that important)
• Scrap blink DT's
• Maybe some MMM nerf since MMM + tanks might be tough to fight and is just stronger than before.

Not sure about Msc, I don't mind it.

To hijack my thread, does protoss players like the current state of protoss design wise?

So far most of the suggestions seem to go back on the changes made in the test map and not actually changing stuff with protoss itself.

Although I main Protoss, I've played a lot of Random and that's what I'm exclusively playing the balance test matchmaking as. I'd like to quote what Dayvie said in his Aug. 19 update:

With these design changes, we have a unique opportunity to put our entire focus on making sure that every matchup is in a balanced, fun, and diverse state. With this in mind, if a race already has more options in a matchup, it will not get as many ‘diversity’ buffs as the other race who only has one option. In short: the end result of these changes is what is important, not the changes themselves, and we hope everyone can get onboard with this way of thinking.

As a Protoss main it's easy to get in the mindset of thinking Protoss just didn't get as many cool changes, but using Dayvie's line of thinking it's not about that, it's about the diversity of the matchups.

From that perspective thats generally why I don't find playing the Balance Mod as Protoss as appealing. PvP, PvT, and PvZ all don't play very differently in my experience so far. For an example, a bunch of Terran's I've fought already gave up on mech being viable in PvT and just went bio vs me. So not much diversity there.

Tempests are just soooo boring :( I don't want to use them, I've always hated the unit, it offers nothing interesting to the hand and it seems like I have to vs mech. I'm also sick of every Protoss unit having a castable ability. It's just not that fun

Diamond P here. In my opinion not much changes, thats it. Lets see:

• Blink dts sounds cool on paper. In practice it is not useful. Dt usage is situational and quite often you already have prism nearby for evacuation. So blink is not needed.

• Tempest nerf. This unit is tier 3 tech and in 1v1 games I dont get there often. It is expensive, very low dps per supply or cost, and gets even worse in the patch. For me it makes it unusable. Also no ground attack anymore.

• Carrier change. Makes it a little cheaper yes, might be cool for 4v4. For 1v1 it was never used and will stay this way anyway.

• Adept nerf. That is important and a huge setback. Protoss harass potential in early game becomes much lower. Back to turtling like in HOTS? No thank you, dont want that!!!

So why play this patch? Protoss is nerfed in comparison to Z and T. To get rekt by crazy buffed mech?

Disclaimer: I'm not pro, these are the opinions of a diamond scrub:

Despite the massive circle jerk on the forums and this sub, Protoss is not 1a. It has the most unforgiving micro mechanics out of all the races, because almost every single unit in the protoss arsenal has an ability and in order to get the full potential of your army.. you need to micro like a madman. LotV brought more micro and the speed of the game really changed the balance of lower level PvX matchups. Its much harder to defend a 12 pool in gold as protoss or defend against multiple drops against terran as protoss. So players either lose early or are forced to allin because of the difficulty of army control in late game protoss.

As for the new test map, the changes are mostly nerfs. Protoss still feels like its gimped and relying on all-ins to beat the other races. Its very hard to play a pure macro game as P if the opponents are at all aggressive.

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