Bait and Switch?

A lot can change when kids enter the picture. Many women suddenly struggle with the reinvention of who they are. "Mommy Mode" kicks in, and some sexual acts suddenly become unacceptable to them. This is perfectly natural, but not always so fun for the guy. You just have to be patient. Sometimes years later, when the Mommy Mode settles down, those previous acts suddenly start to look good again to her. But it can take years.

There is no bait and switch in our sex lives. People evolve over time. We all change. We're supposed to do that. What I want from sex now is completely different from what I wanted 20 years ago. Now I wear cock rings and play with my ass. I enjoy BDSM and exhibitionism. None of that was on my radar back when I got married!!! I changed. Fortunately, my wife understands this and does her best to accommodate my needs, within what she's willing to do. Our sex life is all about communication, and continually reevaluating what is on and off the table, for the both of us. She never used to play with toys. Now she takes great pleasure in playing with vibes and dildos, during solo and couple play. We both changed, and somehow found a way for it to be fun for the both of us. It's not easy. Tons of honesty is required, and even more patience. Sometimes you just don't get everything you want, and you have to be happy with what they're currently willing to give; "currently" being the operative word here. Life is all about change and how we deal with those changes.

I guess for me the next question would have been, "Well, if you once did those things for me, why do you not want to do them for me now?"

My ex wife did this too. In some ways worse. Some of it was my fault as there were red flags early on. I shouldn't have settled for a relationship so flawed at the beginning. In some cases we never did certain things I wanted to. In some cases she promised me she would someday "when we get married". Yeah that should have been obvious looking back. But she also did the same for non sexual things. Quit working, quit trying to maintain a healthy weight, quit trying to help around the house. I didn't suffer quietly and would complain and fight about stuff. She would promise to do something about it. Never happened.

I don't have much advice. See if she is depressed, does she want help? Are you doing all you can?

It doesn't sound exactly like a bait and switch to me. More like she's made a mental shift to no longer wanting to please you or get pleasure from your pleasure. She enjoyed doing The Things You Liked because you liked them, but now that's not so rewarding for her.

It's very common in long term relationships. At first you love doing things for the other person. You love seeing their face light up when you bring a little gift or do them a favor. You give long, sensual massages just for the reward of seeing them dreamy and satisfied.

But over time, it's really common to stop doing that. Part of it is just familiarity and the loss of that infatuation or NRE, and part of can be resentment, feeling unappreciated, taking on a tit-for-tat, score-keeping mentality where you don't want to give more than you're getting back.

Do you still do all the Things She Liked as much as you did while you were dating? Not just sexual things, but whatever you used to do just to give her happiness? Not that if you start doing those things again it will change how she is in bed necessarily, but it's worth thinking about whether no longer getting pleasure from the other's pleasure goes both ways in your relationship.

Yep.....she could give a shit about your needs here. I don't know how old your kids are but do understand that when they are little and don't sleep through the night there can be challenges.

I would have a very serious talk about her attitude and your DB issue and if she still pops off with not caring then time to go to marriage counseling. Communication is very important and stone walling is not communication and her saying that she won't do anything that you like says a bunch about her attitude.

If you where suddenly out of the picture and she was netting a new guy she'd do all those things again to draw him in then, maybe, stop. Ask yourself if this is a bait and switch.

I'm not a father but I have seen this happen to friends before. If the husband left the girl went back to being a freak after the first half bottle of wine.

Do yourself a favor and get in shape (if you're not already). It might help, and if it doesn't at least you'll be fit and will make some good friends at the gym, also if this ends up a deal-breaker you will be in a better place to move on without her.

Wow, I appreciate the large number of responses, but in order to get it tapped out, I'll summarize what I've heard from people (both in comments and PMs) and respond.

First, there's a contingent of people who advocate for the red pill process. When you take all of the peacock strutting and dick waving out of the red pill process, it boils down to "be the most confident version of yourself and do whatever it takes to get there."

I feel like many people in here are very sex-positive, and one of the things that does is to encourage confidence in whatever you decide to do. That's awesome. People have a point that it's very easy to let go of oneself (weight, health, friends, hobbies, etc.) in a not-so-exciting relationships scenario, and I am certainly guilty of that on some level. I know I need to work on myself, and be truer to the person that I was in my 20s before all this began, but I have to believe that I've learned a thing or two in that time, and following red pill to the letter is absolutely unnecessary, and I can be (and am, to most people) a confident, desirable, interesting man without being a prick about it - and that's true already.

Second, there's a group that suggests that this is a relationship problem and not a sex problem, and on a base level, you're right. The relationship may not die because of the lack of sex, but it may die because of the issues that lead to the lack of sex. And I have to thank one person in particular (who shall remain nameless) for reminding me that for people who feel it, kink is not particularly optional if you plan to be happy.

So here's what I'm going to do: I am going to spend much more time thinking about what I can do to make things better, and much less time thinking about what she can do to make things better. Obviously, I will be supportive and encouraging if she chooses to make any changes. If, by the time I am fully happy that I have done and continue to do everything possible to get what I want and do what I can to contribute to what she says she wants out of the relationship, I am still not happy with the relationship and she has still not addressed her contribution to the problem, then it will end.

If it ends, it will end with the knowledge that I did my part. That's really all I can ask of myself, and as u/925Copper pointed out, there comes a point in time where there's nothing else that I can do, no matter what it is that I actually want to happen.

The diversity of opinion here is fabulous, and though we have just met, I am pleased to meet all of you. You ladies and gentlemen are amazing.

Just to give a short success story - I had an issue somewhat like this (I detailed my issues here in a few threads called "Trying")

I delved deeper and my wife basically said it was a turn-off that I kept requesting or talking about the things I like.

So finally I agreed 100% not to bring the stuff up. And then a few weeks later, she did it for me. Then weeks after that, really got into it during my birthday weekend.

This may seem overly simplistic though "duh just stop asking." But there was dialogue that led to me realizing I just had to do that.

"I never really liked that stuff anyway but did it because you did."

That's my ex-wife in a nutshell, although she stopped doing all the non-"normal" stuff before we got married and I was too dumb to see what was happening.

Ok, I feel for you. I agree with u/myexesparamour that it sounds more like a change than a bait and switch. Still, I've been in your shoes (feel free to look at my profile posts for the whole story) and the basis of why doesn't matter. It just sucks when you're there.

If you've tried therapy and it hasn't worked, there are some hard questions you need to ask of both her and yourself. I had that same conversation with my ex. She told me she never liked any of that stuff, that she though it sounded sexy, and now that we were married with a couple of kids this was how it was and I needed to simply get used to it.

She was very wrong.

I'm a huge advocate for open communication here. Talk openly with her. Let her know how important all this is to you and why. She needs to know how both not having good and having those things makes you feel. She also needs to hear clearly what you're thinking if she decides that she's just not interested. Listen openly to what she has to say and be open to alternatives.

Like the recent mod post said, we talk feelings and sex here, bc they're largely inseparable in a long term relationship. Put it all out there...

Depression is a bitch on the libido. I just went through a round of it with my wife where sex fell off quite a bit. What helped us immensely was for us to connect on an emotional level and for me to focus more on supporting her and less on being upset by the lack of intimacy. While this didn't fix the depression, nor did it bring about more sex during the depression, it brought us closer together in a big way, and I felt more emotional intimacy from her. It turns out, that was what I craved more than sex. Recently, her depression has gone away for now. With the lifting of depression combined with our renewed emotional connection, her libido has skyrocketed like never before.

Now here's hr thing. None of this would have worked if we hadn't been communicating about how we were feeling and what we were going through. In he past, I've tried to take the pressure of sex off in more of a silent protest. That just ended in me being frustrated, and her not wanting sec any more than before. Then my frustration would cause tension... you see the pattern. For us communication, honesty, and support were key.

What others have said about "mommy mode" is completely true. However, as with everything else in life deliberateness and willingness can overcome a lot.

She has two kinds of challenges: physical and psychological.

First for the physical... get yourselves to a good doctor that understands sexuality and the human body and life changes. My wife and I go to the best one in the world (annually. and BTW, we're 60-me and 54-her), Dr. Irwin Goldstein (http://www.sandiegosexualmedicine.com). After children the chances are pretty good that your wife could be needing testosterone supplementation among other things (It's not uncommon even in the 30's - 40's). There's also the possible complication of HSDD for her. The best docs are hip for all of this and can offer you a variety of solutions.

Psychologically, get thee to an MFT - sex therapist. Drag her if necessary. Commit yourself and do the work.

Finally, get yourself a copy of "Intimacy and Desire" by Dr. David Schnarch (my sex therapist pointed me in this direction). The first three chapters seem like it's all about sex but, then chapters 4 - 7 bring you around to see that it's all about intimacy and that the irresistible driving force in that can be unilateral and that it's YOU. Change yourself and you can drive change in the relationship far beyond your wildest dreams (it worked for me/us). The book can teach you how to have a "second growing up", becoming more and more differentiated so that you can also effect growth in your relationship.

EDIT: Corrected spelling to Schnarch

Sounds to me like a relationship issue and not a bedroom issue. Fix the relationship and the other stuff will follow naturally.