Source
r/ffxiv•
MrCookTM

Seeking help for my static's MCH, fflogs inside

[Discussion]

Alright, this is done with permission of my statics MCH. His dps isn't quite where he wants it to be, and after watching a lot of PoV's of top lvl MCH's like Rin, studying guides (he's still rather new to the job, around 3ish month's) and trying a lot of different stuff like stance dancing etc., he's slowly coming to the point where he doesn't really know where the problem lies.

This is yesterday's A10S parse of my group, I picked that one specifically because there were no deaths on his side. His overall ilvl was 262 with a Sophic weapon. Ofc feel free to look at other parses of other turns though: https://www.fflogs.com/reports/GRF7nqYLPz2CXpa6#fight=10&type=damage-done

I for myself are able to read logs for NIN and MNK rather well and point out where faults in terms of CD usage/uplining, general uptime etc. are, but I'm very inexperienced with MCH so I fear I can only do so much for him.

I (and him) would greatly appreciate if some carreer Machinists could take their time and look over some of the logs and provide their feedback, he really wants to improve. :)

Ty!

  • Cryss Cook of Cerberus

Posted Nov 17, 2016, 12:27 PM UTC

1325
Senko_Oshava•

So i did a quick comparison with my log this week.

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/8mF6ZGbdpfnMNcjK#fight=2&type=casts&source=7

Doing a quick side by side comparison, your kill time was 7:51, ours was 6:44.

6:44 = 404 seconds 7:51= 471 seconds

Assuming each GCD is 2.5 seconds(slightly less than that due to SS but you get the point)

404/2.5= 161.6gcds 471/2.5= 188.4gcds

I had out of potentially 161 gcds, 159gcds

Your mch had 174 out of a potential 188gcds.

The lack in potential GCDS can be attributed to mechanics, movement and downtime. But the lack of gcds should not equate to that much, as 14gcds is equal to roughly 30seconds of not pressing anything.

There is next to no downtime in a10s and also we are ranged as well so we have no real excuse to not hit the boss.

ABCs= always be casting

Then you look at the actual casts, with a shorter kill time, I have one more wildfire rotation than your MCH. So at least 6-7 of those gcds that your mch has used, could have been gcds inside a wildfire.

So from a dps standpoint= needs more buttons From a MCH standpoint= needs more wildfire

9
MrCookTMOPCryss Cook - Cerberus•

Thanks, that helps a lot. :) Could you also take a look at u/Cromson_Avalon's answer just above you and verify it?

1
Senko_Oshava•

Yes leadshot damage is low, might be using leadshot outside of buffs. Opening wildfire is definitely on the lowside especially with a Nin/Drg.

~16k opener wildfires are about what your looking at ilvl 240.

3
MrCookTMOPCryss Cook - Cerberus•

Thanks again for your time. Could you by any chance link me a proper wildfire opener? :)

2
Phalanx_FieldPhalanx Field, Coeurl•

Going into phase 3 it looks like he flubbed a few buttons (reapplied Hot and Lead Shot early, but before buffs, Hypercharge on Roller was late and after oGCDs, etc).

Check the transition from the Steamroller back to Lamebrix and make sure he keeps his buffs sync'd correctly there (i.e. buffs before Leadsdhot, and not quadweaving before Slugshot).

It also looks like he swapped to Bishop and promoted for... a really long time. at 4:30 he swaps and promotes, at 5:45 he Hypercharges it, and he doesn't swap back to Rook until 6:30. I see why he did it (SCH death, WHM low mana), but that's one of the reasons he's a bit lower on this run.

2
ser_metrykcontra banned // gilgamesh•

Yeah, the loss of a Wildfire will be a huge thing. You can see where Litany gets used the second time is where he should have been doing his full Wildfire, but it's delayed for some reason. That set him back and ultimately made him lose a usage at the end of the fight.

1
Rearranger_Reversal advocate•

His opener is a bit... Unorthodox. It can certainly be optimized a bit more. But the bigger problem is what senko and others had mentioned. He's not always casting, he might have missed a window for a wildfire when party buffs are up, and he's not buffing his dots.

Part of this might be tp. Mch single target rotation is unsustainable unless invigorate is used on cooldown. So, it's possible that he didn't manage his tp properly.

1
MrCookTMOPCryss Cook - Cerberus•

Yeah these are also the main points we made out as the primary issues. He already worked on his opener last night, and was able to consistently hit 15-16k wildfires on a dummy without food/pot/party buff/disembowel, in a fight scenario where these things are given + TA and litany he should be able to reach numbers closer to where they should be at his ilvl. :)

We really need to look at the uptime issue though. Aside from unneccessary double/triple weaving which of course clips and costs gcd', he was under the assumption that he's always casting. I even asked if he always 'mashes' the next skill while the current gcd is still happening in order to que properly, and he does. Maybe he needs to capture a fight (which is easy since he's on ps4) and we need to take a look at that in order to get more info.

Thx for your input, appreciated! :)

edit: what exactly is unorthodox about the opener? I asked him and he said the only he adjusted is to take off GB one gcd earlier. If you have any pointers towards what to change specifically, would be appreciated. :)

1
Crimson_Avalon•

Opener is shit. Casts per minute is where it should be, so he's hitting the wrong buttons. Lead shot dot damage is lacking, even though it's up most of the time.

Best guess is poor cooldown usage and not lining up cd properly.

5
MrCookTMOPCryss Cook - Cerberus•

Thank's, will look into that! Like I said I'm not a machinist, do you have a quick link to a preferred opener?

1
halloptikMinah Sojin on Gilgamesh•

http://www.ffxivrotations.com/c8l

-2
MrCookTMOPCryss Cook - Cerberus•

Ty, sir!

1
Saik1992Gridania•

'Sup Cryss :)

Since you asked for it multiple times but noone actually gave you that hint, here's a pretty good MCH opener:

http://dtguilds.enjin.com/namessmchguide

The Five Ammunition Opener is where you'd want to be, either the GB on or GB off at pull one, they don't really make THAT much of a difference if you're not going for speedkills.

As Senko pointed out pretty well, Makina has some GCDs missing. That'd conflict with the statement of him being able to stance dance (As I assume the missing GCD issue comes from dealing with mechanics with too much movement). There'd be two things to fix this.

First is Stutter stepping, which is the harder way and should be known :D Con is he'd need to know mechanics very well which conflicts with him probably moving too much.

Second is stance dancing which would be preferable but is very situational. The bonus AA's besides his 1 will even make him deal more DPS (except if he's pressing a proc).

The last thing - what he won't get by reading guides - is mapping his CD's with the other players. That was also pointed out pretty good by Senko. If you were absolute serious you could just do a quick explanation of Group buffs and when they'd be up so he can align his own CD's properly.

last but not least: an AST will highly benefit both the group and the MCH as most AST's may just toss a single-target balance into the MCHs second strong wildfire (at ~180s) and also up his first wildfire by a good amount.

I didnt check his buff timings too directly, and just took a quick look into the parse, but you kind of know how to reach me I guess... :p

3
MrCookTMOPCryss Cook - Cerberus•

Yo Saik, thanks for taking the time to reply! :)

Yeah we already figured out a lot of that actually. He refined his opener and is hitting quite a bit higher with his wf's now, and we figured that both uptime/gcd loss and ogcd alignment are the major things to work on for him. We usually have our cd's mapped out over the fight pretty well and talk about it regularly, like when to do the '2nd opener' during a fight, 2nd pot usage etc., but since he's not only rather new to the job but to endgame raiding in general, I guess a lot of the information he just didn't grasp enough in order to transfer that to his own cd rotation.

Appreciate the help, if I ever need more info, I know where to find you. ;)

o/

1
Saik1992Gridania•

His gear looks pretty decent as well. Just make him do the relic for the relic's decreased AA-delay. It might become useful if the relic ever gets to 270 or 275.

Meanwhile there'd be 3 other things that you may casually note based on that fflogs, but I don't want to criticize outside of the topic as only the MCH approved for that sort of conversation :D

GL on your a12s kill, shouldnt be too far away :P

1
MrCookTMOPCryss Cook - Cerberus•

He only got his 270 weapon and the twine for pants after yesterday's A11s, so he was a bit lower during that A10s Kill. :) But yeah, he's pretty well geared now, that's true.

Regarding the logs, you can note whatever you want, aside from the fact that this kill was sloppy as hell xD (as you can easily see in form of mutltiple healer/tank deaths). Maybe just PM me.

We expect A12S to go down this ID, we had a close call yesterday and there's two more raid nights to come until reset. :) Thanks m8!

1
Saik1992Gridania•

I'm gonna be taking 1 or 2 hours to study your fflogs today. Don't want to make unverified claims that only happened because a kill was sloppy. :)

1
Spearya•

Looks he/she use alot of unproced slug shots to me to trigger clean shots more often which is dps loss and not really a gain

0
MrCookTMOPCryss Cook - Cerberus•

Thanks for your answer.

I just took a look at the log and checked the amount of procs he got: he had exactly 48 slug shot procs and 33 cleaner shots, which equals exactly the amount of uses of each skill. So unless I'm reading/understanding this wrong, his proc-handling was fine in a sense that he never used slug/clean without a proc, and that he has never let a proc fall off without using it. Can you verify that?

3
Spearya•

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/V4kxjafhzd2tF1Zv#fight=11&type=damage-done

Well here my parse in A10S despite its 3 mins longer than your kill i still almost do same DPS as your mch

I looked at slug shot casts and thought thats why but guess was very lucky with procs so my bad in that

But yea lead shot dmg seems indeed lower im almost doubling leadshot dmg with 3 mins longer kill

Note that parse when i was i257 with a pug A10S

-2
MrCookTMOPCryss Cook - Cerberus•

Thx for your input

1
Diadlo777Bard•

If really you want to patch his DPS I would suggest switching the WHM to an AST. He should also be able to pull at least a 2k+ DPS with his Wildfire. He's also missing lots of GCD like said in a previous post. Using reload more often should help boost his DPS a little.

He's also losing Hot shot too often. His Hot shot uptime is 93,13%, he should at minimum be above 98%.

But what I would suggest the most would be for him to modify his opener, a 5k DPS at top opener is extremely weak.

-6
MrCookTMOPCryss Cook - Cerberus•

Well, I don't think that would patch his dps, as he wants to catch up with the group (and honestly, looking at current parses, he should), but an AST would buff the rest of the group aswell. Maybe he wouldn't as far behind as before due to the nature of Wildfire and how big of a role it plays in MCH's overall dps, but seeing how in most non-AST groups MCH is usually still 2nd or 3rd in dps and not a far last, the issue is somewhere else.

Thanks for your input on Hot shot thoug, I told him that and he will work on it. :)

2