r/WoT•
Cheimon

[Towers of Midnight] Some reactions, predictions, and questions after finishing the book.

No spoilers beyond Towers of Midnight, please. I’ve read New Spring, but if there are any other (WoT) things I should read before A Memory of Light, I’d appreciate the recommendations. There’s a short story about LTT’s strike at Shayol Ghul, I think?

I hope this all fits together okay and isn't too rambling (I wrote it in word and moved chunks around a bit). At least this thread style seems to be somewhat popular. I'm really interested to hear people's thoughts (especially if I've missed something major). On to the reactions, questions, and predictions!

I love everything about zen Rand al’Thor. Everything. I would follow him to Shayol Ghul.

The future with Aviendha’s sight is tremendously bleak. Rand doesn’t have a single lasting impact, and he leaves the world worse than it was without him. Next time the Dark One stirs, all the channelers in the world will be enslaved. But the whole story has been emphasising that prophecy mustn’t be ignored. How can we ignore this ter’angreal vision? Is it like Dreaming, or is it like Foretelling? I have read that as the pattern loosens, this sort of thing becomes less accurate, but if this is how the story ends, I will be disappointed.

Rand’s lack of attention to the black tower is infuriating if understandable. I just wish he had someone he could trust to check up on Taim because if not he’s created a nest of new dreadlords. I am looking forward to Logain kicking ass here.

Is Shara going to do anything? Graendal kidnapped their rulers and Rand presumably balefired them, but I sure hope they turn up in the last battle. They’ve been brought up too many damn times to have nothing happen (including the ever-infuriating “Jain Farstrider was talking about Shara, but Mat was sure he was full of it, so he just ignored him.”)

Speaking of that, I'm sadRand never got to meet his idol, Jain Farstrider. I think Noal would have got a kick out of knowing the Dragon Reborn thought he was a cool guy, and Rand would have appreciated it.

I’m pleased Moiraine got back from the Tower of Ghenjei, but I still feel like a lot of what went on hasn’t been cleared up in a helpful way. How is it that Slayer could escape into it safely? Could Mat’s ashandarei have let him escape from anywhere inside it? What’s up with the inside of it? What are the Finn, and why are they in a tower? Why don’t they have any interest in the Last Battle? How did Mat not come up with his terms before going in? Why didn’t he go through what he was going to say with everyone else? They could have come up with what the loopholes might be. It just comes across as not preparing properly.

I’m much more sad that Lan seems to be charging to his death. Nynaeve has given Rand a bunch of reminders, and superman deserves better than to be charging home with only 12,000 men. Really hoping there'll be a Deus Ex Machina for him at the beginning of the next book.

I’ve been really enjoying the whitecloaks plotline. All along, they’ve been the army that ought to be supporting Rand the most, and it’s wonderful that they finally begin to realise who they are and how they fit into the pattern. Yes, you’re just men. No, you’re not that good at fighting. Yes, questioners take it too far. No, you can’t tell a darkfriend by eye colour (unless you’re Rand al’Thor). Yes, you can still have a meaningful existence without conquering the nations. I’m really rooting for these guys (and I’m willing to forgive Bornhald for being a little bit like Gawyn, and Byar for being under Graendal’s compulsion). Galad is just trying to do what’s right. Sure, he makes mistakes, but his intentions are truly pure.

I’m also very glad Gawyn has finally grown up a bit. I’m not surprised he expected Egwene to be impulsive and irrational though, when you consider that he grew up around Elayne (who still is impulsive and irrational…I mean, holy shit, allow your warder to guard you).

I’m working on the assumption that Rand somehow uses the True Power to seal the bore instead of Saidin this time, thus ensuring madness only comes to the darkfriends who’ll use it (and him, probably, unless Nynaeve can do something about that). He’ll die, but I get the impression he might be resurrected (or is that just wishful thinking?). Everyone in Aviendha’s vision used euphemisms like Rand “going away” rather than saying he was killed, so there is that.

Egwene’s reaction to sealgate is infuriating. I get that Rand is presumably relying on it to try and force everyone to the Field of Merrilor, but Egwene never even tries to understand where he’s coming from. Why can’t people just say: “Wow! That sounds a bit hasty, but I’m sure you’ve got a reason that’s not just madness. Can you spare an hour? I’d like to hear a full discussion of why you think we need to break the seals, so I can have a fair opinion on it.” Instead they go “Break the seals?! Nooooooooo!”.

Way gates and Portal Stones. Ways have Machin Shin in them, so why use them in preference to a portal stone? Also, how did the Trolloc army get to Caemlyn without being eaten by the black wind? Large armies are meant to be more attractive to it (like wasps to honey).

The Seanchan are infuriating. More than anyone else, I’d like to see some of the sul’dam given a good hard slap (especially since everyone seems to think it’s fine to slap the shit out of Rand/Perrin/Mat). They think that all channelers are rabid dogs, and that freeing damane is like killing a child, but they don’t seem to realise that using a’dam is like killing a child to everyone else. They’ve also got an entire continent’s worth of examples to disprove the “rabid dog” idea and they’re just ignoring them. Arrrrgghhhh. And they’re so sure Rand will bow to the crystal throne, and I don’t know if that’s an actual prophecy or just an edited addition. I surely hope he doesn’t bow, though, or else Aviendha’s vision seems certain to come true. Honestly the whole slavery thing is not nearly as bad as the concept that all channelers are subhuman. But they’re so certain that they’re right even when they keep being proven wrong: Trollocs can’t exist, oh wait, Aes Sedai must rule the world, oh wait, Finn aren’t a thing, oh wait, oh wait…argh! Even Empress 4TuonA is pretty bad (hmm, this "Matrim" is repeatedly shown correct, but he's talking about something I think is a child's story...better knock him on the head for his impertinence).

According to Egwene’s “Towers of Midnight” dream, the 13 forsaken will crumble to 6, with one of them being humbled and rising particularly high. 7 destroyed towers are Asmodean, Balthamel, Be’lal, Mesaana, Rahvin, Sammael, and Semirhage. The 6 remaining ones have to be Aginor, Demandred, Graendal, Ishamael, Lanfear, Moghedien. So Aginor will come back from the dead (but all of these except Demandred have been humbled in embarrassing ways).

Posted Nov 20, 2016, 4:48 PM UTC

1617
pullingthestringz•

Why can’t people just say: “Wow! That sounds a bit hasty, but I’m sure you’ve got a reason that’s not just madness. Can you spare an hour? I’d like to hear a full discussion of why you think we need to break the seals, so I can have a fair opinion on it.” Instead they go “Break the seals?! Nooooooooo!”.

Pretty much sums up the series.

5
participating•

Slayer has no direct connection with the Tower of Ghenjei. He knows it's dangerous to enter, and impossible to exit. He also knows Perrin is fairly ignorant about the World of Dreams. When Perrin is chasing him, Slayer runs right up to the Tower and then leaves the World of Dreams, making it look like he entered. He did this in the hopes Perrin would be stupid and enter the Tower himself and be trapped. It almost worked, but Birgitte stopped him going in.

The Portal Stones show off that there are alternate realities/universes than can be accessed. Some are close shadows of the universe, others are wildly different. The Finn live in a really, really weird universe. That universe is actually perpendicular to the main universe in a way that lets them see time in the main universe as easily as looking left or right. That's how they're able to answer questions about the past/future. They don't live in the Tower, the Tower is just an object, like the Portal Stones, that lets you travel to their universe. Like all the other alternate universes, they have their own ways of fighting in the Last Battle, but they don't come to the main universe to do so; they fight in their own universe. This isn't something you really get to see, it's just something occasionally mentioned by characters doing some philosophizing in one-off comments.

4
CheimonOP•

Thanks, that makes some sense.

By the way, the file-toothed red-veiled aiel at the end of the book, is that a gholam? I forget if that had filed teeth or whether it was a Finn that had them. I'm not asking for spoilers per se, just trying to remember where I saw filed teeth before.

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participating•

The Eelfinn, resembling foxes, have pointed, canine teeth, which is probably what you're thinking of, but nothing else, until this red-veiled aiel have explicitly filed teeth.

3
CheimonOP•

Oh well! Thanks.

1
LNikon360•

Remember back around Dragon Reborn? I think... the aiel send the men that can channel to spit in sight blinders eye?...

1
Ionlygoonrrt•

1: Avhienda's vision is "POSSIBLE futures." Not decided future. Basically it says "Don't stray from Jih'e'Toh, and don't break The Dragons Peace to fuck with the Seanchan, you will not win the fight.

2: [About Shara;] (/s "It plays a biiiiiig part, and it is AWESOME ")

3: Yes, Matt could have left from anywhere. But Noal died before he figured out that the Ashandarei was the third trade, not just a middle finger used to support his noose. Not sure about Slayer and the tower. Except that he is in there with Demandred at some point.

4: Fuck Gawyn, Fuck him right up his asshole.

5:The field of Merrilor is going to be Egwene convincing him not to do it, and Rand and his people convincing her why they need to do it. But since all of ToM never enters Rand's perspective, that never really gets spelled out.

6: There is no Portal Stone in Caemlyn, and Trollocs die when they travel trough Traveling. Also Machin Shin is working with the Forsaken for some reason. I forget what book this is explained in, but basically he is hanging around Waygates that the good guys try to travel trough. I think The Dark One gets enough influence in the world to go make a deal with him.

7: You are wrong about the Forsaken, saying more will be a spoiler.

3
participating•

3: I know OP asked specifically, but he also made the post with no spoilers for the last book. Might be worth spoiler tagging #3 because what happens was actually a huge (awesome) surprise for most people and I'd hate for someone to have that ruined if they weren't expecting it.

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Ionlygoonrrt•

What listed in point #3 is not from Towers Of Midnight?

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participating•

Sorry, I read dumb, I meant #2.

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Ionlygoonrrt•

I feel it's vague enough that it should be OK, but i'll spoilertag it for safety... once i figure out how...

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CheimonOP•

Sorry, I was a bit unclear there.

I'm happy knowing X plays a part, though I wouldn't want to know specifics.

1
CheimonOP•

Thanks! Good to hear some of those reassurances (it seems like Aviendha could do with persuading some more wise ones or Rand especially to head through the glass columns). I'm hyped for Shara, even sadder about Jain "just a distant cousin" Farstrider, and so on.

I hadn't realised Machin Shin was working with the forsaken. I'd assumed it was just the pattern stopping Rand et al from travelling through the ways at certain points.

Also, another question I'd forgotten to post here: the rulers of Andor are women who go to the White Tower to learn to channel. Given that both Morgase and Elayne could, it seems likely that rulers in the past have had some success touching the true source (it also seems likely because, well, if every generation sucked at channelling why would they keep sending people?). So why don't the queens of Andor have a reputation for being unusually long-lived? And if they do, why hasn't the white tower noticed that the channelling non-Aes Sedai queens live longer than they do?

1
Ionlygoonrrt•

Because the tradition is a remnant from Manetheren where every queen was Aes Sedai, every King a Warder. It's stated in the third book that "Elayne is the first person out of Andor to be an Aes Sedai queen for a thousand years, and the first person with enough power to be so openly for probably two thousand"

They all go, they all stay an entire year. But incredibly few are ever able to channel. Royal Inbreeding as it is even in Andor basically assures that no one was ever able to become Aes Sedai within the Noble Houses of Andor once the trait was mostly bred out.

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CheimonOP•

Interesting. So the culling hypothesis is canon? Channelling ability is genetic?

1
Ionlygoonrrt•

It's never 100% confirmed. But it's likely.

Personally i think it's a combination. Channelers are more likely to have channeler kids, but sometimes it just happens.

3
ambiturnal•

Someone might have already said it, but you might have forgotten that in FoH, when Rand brought the Tear Aiel to Rhuidean, he needed an Angreal. We can be sure he was already stronger than Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha at their full potential by that point.

Might help understand why they aren't used in general very often.

2